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Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1037


 Denomination’s ,.. ?

Denomination’s ?

should we ask??,....

*But ‘how’ did this get started ?.....
~~~~
*Was denomination’s God-ordained, or man-made? ......
~~~~
*What was the Church called in The Bible ? ....
~~~~
*Should we get back to what The Word/Bible says ?.....
~~~~
*Has man taken us way, off-track?.....
.......man’s way vs. God’ Way....

^And, ‘How’ did this happen?...when He has called us into the ‘UNITY’ of Christ.

*But, What is ‘the unity
of Christ?’....

**Note:
What I am about to share,I can only share by experiencing.
———- •
elizabeth

 2019/11/16 8:55Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37099
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re: Denomination’s ,.. ?

Sister,

I wrote this, its chapter 1 of a short 4 chapter book on "starting a house church". I hope it helps abit in this thinking about the foundations of the church and denominations.

---


Historic Roots

The Church is not a new thing in the earth. We are actually a part of a body of believers that is over 2000 years old! Imagine it. For over 50 generations, the Church has been passed on to each subsequent group of believers and leaders. The Holy Scriptures have also been copied and passed on, and we still have them today. So when starting something new, like a house Church, it is a comfort to realize we are entering into something with great historical weight.

One of the accusations towards people starting house churches is that they are doing something new and innovative, with new doctrines. This can be true if someone is starting a church on their own ideas and basis, and if it does not historically line up with other believers throughout Church history and the Scriptures.

In other cases, some believers have not been able to submit to any Christian authority in their lives, always thinking they are right and others are wrong. In some cases also, believers starting house churches have been greatly hurt by other Christians or Christian leaders and, therefore, are seeking to protect themselves.

Christianity has, for 2000 years, gone through many periods of disagreements and divisions, but each successive generation seems aimed at repeating past mistakes, disagreeing with each other, and, in the end, separating to “do their own thing.” The current amount of division in the body of Christ speaks of this problem of not being able to agree on the common elements of the faith.

First Century Apostasy?

The main driving force of some people to start house churches is the strong belief that the entire Church, by and large, apostatized shortly after or during the life of the Apostle John. This means that the truth was lost, and the Church began to depart from God’s intention and direction. Therefore, there is a distrust of all of Church history and now some current house church movements are looked at as the restoring of the original Book of Acts Church.

What this also means is that there was always just a very small minority of those who somehow held to the truth, and the majority was always wrong. Does this type of thinking seem familiar?

I took a phone call once from a man who stated that he could not find others who believed his gospel. My first assumption was that, after he left the pastorate, he was simply having a hard time finding other fellow believers who would hold to similar convictions. After two hours on the phone with this man, I realized he was preaching another gospel (Galatians 1:8). His argument was that, after the death of the apostles, the truth died and only now, in the twenty-first century, it had been revived and he was the messenger. If someone attended a church of any kind, he stated, they were believing a lie (2 Thessalonians 2:11) and lost! When he asked me what my gospel was, I shared with him the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. His reaction was curse words!

One term for this type of thinking is Restorationism, which means the truth was lost with the apostles and now in our modern day is being restored. Such thinking is the seed-bed of many denominations and especially cults. Also this thinking is usually very exclusive, meaning that we have the truth that is restored and others do not. Even other restoration type groups fight amongst each other over who really is the group that the Lord is with. If Jesus came back, we could see the picture of all the leaders of these groups asking the Lord to verify their own church as the true and only church.

How do we know if our actions and words today are following in the same spirit of some of the opposers of the Gospel in the beginning of the Church? One test we can take is to ask ourselves: Do we consider God's Church sacred? (1 Corinthians 3:17). Or do we speak and treat other believers with little care, speaking our mind strongly and seeking to prove what we feel is right at any cost?

I have heard some people in our modern day speak without blushing that the entire Church has been wrong throughout history, and they now understand the true way. Most of the people I have heard espouse these new ideas do not fellowship in any church and also have moral laxity in their lives. In free thinking societies with complete religious freedom, we should have a great fear of God that we do not speak and teach in ways that are departing from “the faith once given to the saints” (Jude 1:3).

Being a Part of the Historic Church

Some believe that Church history began with Martin Luther in AD 1500, and to consider anything before that time is not worthwhile. Such thinking also has created a narrowed vision of the Church Jesus has established.

Perhaps we can consider another way of thinking. We can consider that the Lord has always had His Church (Matthew 16:18). It has not been perfect, has failed and, at times, has needed to be reformed and restored. There has always been a continuation in the work of God, and we are not called to start something new but rather continue something that is old. This does allow for new denominations but these groups should be helping to reform and build upon the 2000-year-old Church we are all a part of.

Individualistic evangelicalism has been leading to what today is over 42,000 denominations worldwide. God has called some of these groups to stand for a truth, yet not apart from the larger testimony of the Church throughout the ages. The Corinthians were of this individual carnal thinking, everyone doing what was right in their own eyes (1 Corinthians 3:4, Judges 21:25). It is a humbling reality that the Church did not begin with us and might not even end with us. We are just a part of God’s plan through the ages. Instead of trying to deconstruct what the Church is today, we should be seeking join with God’s testimony and possibly help reform it. What is exciting is that we can actually be a part of the Church Jesus is building in our day (Matthew 16:18). Being involved in a house church meeting can be very much the will of God and his leading.

Some things that keep us in line and with the historic Church is agreeance with statements of faith that ancient believers held to.

Along with common practices such as communion and water baptism, we can ensure we are a part of the Lord’s work by not being apart from other believers, or being so exclusive that we do not agree with any other believers in Church history.

Starting a house church can be a very simple thing to do but we must carry with it the solemn sense of carrying on what Jesus and the early apostles did.

Where is Jesus?

Some have asked: “Where is Jesus in the midst of so many denominations in Christianity today?” This is a good question, as the original intention of the Lord was surely not for so many churches to exist and compete against each other. One answer we can give: He is walking in the midst of all these groups and different churches. He is acknowledging those who are his, part of his one Church (Ephesians 4:5), those who are “in Christ” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

In the book of Revelation, we see the picture of Jesus in the midst of the early churches: “And among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.” (Revelation 1:13). What a wonderful picture to meditate on.

What will set our hearts in the same mind of the Lord is to also seek to be unified with all brothers and sisters in the Lord no matter what name of church or doctrinal emphasis or preference. Of course, that does not mean we unify with what is heretical or wrong. But it does mean we are filled with grace towards others and we realize that we only see “in part” (1 Corinthians 13:12) until the day we are before the Lord in heaven.

As you seek to follow the living Christ in exploring starting a house church, start with this prayer:

Lord, I am prone to see so earth-bound, the outward and what I have grown up in. Please give me a vision to see your Church as You see it. Allow me to be a part of Your work in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Amen.


from: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/701703


ps it could help also to understand the early church to read the writings of one of the first disciples of the apostles who carried the church along to the next generation:

Early Church Father Series: St. Ignatius of Antioch
By Greg Gordon
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/919546


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2019/11/16 9:09Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1037


 Re:

Dear Brother Greg,
Thank you so much on the deletions this morning, and I am ever-so-greatful for this web-site that you have made available to us here.
...a true blessing,..I only found you ,by Art Katz, many years ago.
Am thankful !

I see you have took a lot of thought about so many denomination too.
You have wrote extensively,I see,and forgive me, but it will take me some time to absorb much of what you have graciously pointed out... I will try.


Thank you♥️

—————-
elizabeth

 2019/11/16 9:38Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1037


 Re:

For some of you who may have not caught my post early-on,.. I wanted to clarify ,.. I ask brother Greg to delete,..as something happened and away (send)went my post before I had began.

————-♥️
elizabeth

 2019/11/16 10:49Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1037


 Re:

Re:
Brother Greg,
“ Re: Denomination’s ,.. ?
Reply To This Post |
Sister,
“I wrote this, its chapter 1 of a short 4 chapter book on "starting a house church". I hope it helps abit in this thinking about the foundations of the church and denominations.”
——————
Brother Greg,
Sorry, I was not referring about home church, I was thinking along the lines of The Church,...it’s relationship w/God,...... the Body of Christ, unity,..and the many denominations,.... going way back to the beginning,... searching
Scriptures, to see ‘why’,... turning aside to see....(if we will) the foundations of the Church and denominations... yes !
Thank you, brother.
——————
elizabeth

————-



 2019/11/16 14:59Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1037


 Re:

(1)But how did the Church get started ?...

Reflecting on the knowledge of the foundation and the beginning of the Church....
*Mt.16:18,
....”upon ‘this rock’ I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”......the foundation...This Rock / The Word of God (This Rock, ... the revealed Word of God.)
...built upon The Rock, that The floods cannot wash away,... everlasting.

So Peter started The Church as he preached his first message on the day of Pentecost,.. the Church began as in the New Testament...
They did not have the New Testament,..
they were dependent upon OT,... Jesus’s teaching when He walked w/them, and revealing’s of The Spirit of God.

Isn’t it strange that Jesus, before His death, He had told Peter, “Upon this Rock I will build my Church,... ? and through Peter was the first church message sent.
I want to really absorb this message.

Act2:14-36,

¶ “But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22 ¶ Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29 ¶ Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 ¶ For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 ¶ Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
—————
The very first message,.. and no mention of denominations.... wasn’t that strange,.. ?
——————-
elizabeth

Adding:

>>>So when Peter with others on the Day of Pentecost started the Church (Acts2) after The Holy Ghost came, the Church came forth, ....the solid Rock, (The Word of God, that Jesus had taught him, and The Word coming through him by The Holy Ghost.)...the revealed Word of God)... leading him and others by The Spirit of God.

“Upon this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it,”

 2019/11/16 16:10Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1037


 Re:

So, In the beginning the emphasis was on ‘the Church’,.. each individual ‘s
Relationship with The Lord and of being filled w/The Spirit of God. That made them a part of the One Church. (Wherever we may be seated at)

In that beginning, the disciples / Apostles called where they assembled,’the Church of God’ ,... ‘The Churches of Christ’ , it was because it truly was the Church of God,.. The Church of The Living God.

**They were making a statement,..

This was God’ way,.. God’ plan.
It was One Way, One plan.
It mattered not what house,... what seashore, ...what place they were at.
———-
So denominational workings did not come at that time.
And ‘how’ and ‘when’ would you say that they came ?
And how did / do we see them increased / increasing, in different / many denominations,.. and growing and increasing with people ?

——————
elizabeth





 2019/11/17 11:16Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1037


 Re:

So,.. denomination’s came sometime later,.. by man, .. .. Would you say, ?,...and is growing, even until now.

But why, and how would that come about ? And how do they grow ?

This is my experience,...

When The Lord, through His Grace started drawing me to Himself
probably when I was about 17-19, .. I became VERY HUNGRY to read His Word, and to find a church to attend,... probably what we all do.

I had experienced the ????? Denominational Church that my Dad and Mother would take us to, .. off and on. So it actually wasn’t a traditional thing or compulsory thing for me.

Then as a teenager, I went some, to another ?????? Denominational Church, although The Lord was not yet drawing me, so I did not join either,.. or get involved.

So when The Lord , as I was above sharing, started drawing me, I looked around and thought, this ?????? Denominational Church ‘LOOKED LIKE’ ,..they were the closest to being right w/The Lord,.. so there is where I started going.

I loved to hear this man, and thought him to be right, but......???

He baptized me in the dead , cold day of winter, but The Lord warmed me.
Then some time later, found out the man was having an extra marital afair,
with someone in the assembly. This did not devastate me though, because I was not putting my trust in man, but in God.
————
The Lord did this for this undeserving vessel , that I am so thankful for,.. although I went, He caused a reservation within me, to not follow man, but to always look to Him , and His Word.

Sounds as if I am bragging,.. I am NOT,.. It was NOT me , but it was His great mercy,.. I was young, and did not plan it.

So I got His Word, and He taught me,as He said He would.
—————
By my experience w/Him, my belief is , that when The Lord starts drawing different individual’s to Himself, they do as I experienced,.. become hungry, and either go into what is a tradition to them or look for a church to go to.
And some will just start following after whatever Denomination they get involved in.

And so we have growth in each, and break apart and make another.

——————♥️
elizabeth



 2019/11/17 19:03Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1417


 Re:

Hi Elizabeth,
What differs one denomination from another is Doctrine or Teaching they dont break apart because of of some organic benign gentle growth.Growth in an individual may cause them to go from one denomination to another where they find the teaching or worship more in line with what they believe,staff


Your Qoute:
By my experience w/Him, my belief is , that when The Lord starts drawing different individual’s to Himself, they do as I experienced,.. become hungry, and either go into what is a tradition to them or look for a church to go to.
And some will just start following after whatever Denomination they get involved in.

And so we have growth in each, and break apart and make another.

 2019/11/18 6:32Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1037


 Re:

Staff,
Thank you, ..
Re:
“What differs one denomination from another is Doctrine or Teaching they dont break apart because of of some organic benign gentle growth.Growth in an individual may cause them to go from one denomination to another where they find the teaching or worship more in line with what they believe,” staff
—————
I agree w/ what you said Staff
——————

Isn’t it odd, that all the Disciples/ Apostles of Jesus, up to this point preached and taught Jesus’s gospel, .. doctrine,... there was a true
‘UNITY ‘ . (One w/ Jesus’s teachings)

...now,... Remembering , how Jesus prayed for them,..and us.

Jn. 17:11,
“And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.”

Jn.17:22,
“They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.”

17 “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”

18 “As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.”

19 “And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.”

20 ¶ “Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;”

21 “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”

22 “And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:”

23 “I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.”
——————
Up to this point, we find nothing of ‘The Church’ being called ONLY,..The Church of God’ which is a STATEMENT that is being made,.. and it never changes from just being a statement, throughout The Word,.. The Bible.... and then once I see it ,”the churches of Christ salute you” (a statement) ,... meaning: it truly is ‘The Church of God’,... (God, being The Word).... meaning: The Church of the True Word of God,... God ordained.
ie,.. His Church.

I came across this that Paul is saying,..

Acts 20:28-32,
“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed THE CHURCH OF GOD’ ,which he hath purchased with his own blood.”

29 “For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.”

30 “Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”

31 “Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.”

32 ¶ “And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.”
——————-

Paul said, ...

Acts20:27,
“ For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.”

*denominations,... why ?
Did the ‘unity’ that these had, not last ?
Did some men in the world, long ago, ...on many occasions, choose a verse of Scripture and form a whole new thing,.. ‘denominations’ out of it ? ... a new message ? ... and then w/ that came one by one many followers ?

Thoughts,...

——————-🙏
elizabeth

 2019/11/18 13:09Profile





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