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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Honor Veterans/Military?

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whaakenson
Member



Joined: 2016/10/11
Posts: 7
Jacksonville, FL USA

 Honor Veterans/Military?

Hi, I'm a Veteran, and was thinking lately being Christian should I honor veterans/military, or be ashamed..I think the latter because my convictions are military has no place in the new testament church, right? So churches that honor veterans are basically giving their consent to an organization that's sole focus is to kill people or protect (but still killing) in the name of freedom or whatever, but aren't we Christian's first and country second? Yes, we leave our citenzenship at the cross. No excuses from the OT either, this is NT I'm talking about, where Jesus turned the other cheek and taught us to love our enemies! Can you picture Jesus or His disciples with a machine gun? Never! Amen.


Wesley


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Wesley Haakenson

 2019/11/8 10:58Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3441
Louisiana

 Re: Honor Veterans/Military?

Brother,

if a Christian for conscience sake does not go into the military, that is one thing, but not to honor our veterans is an entirely different matter.

Do you believe that we should have stayed out of WW2 and allowed Hitler to take over the world?

Should Israel lay down their arms and be taken over by Muslim nations.

I praise God for every veteran that has laid their lives on the line to defend our nation, and the nation’s Of the world.

Sent from my iPhone


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Mike

 2019/11/8 11:08Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1973


 Re: Honor Veterans/Military?

Where would we be if if Nazi fascism and Japanese imperialism had not been actively resisted? South Vietnam begged for help because of what a take over by North Korean communists would entail. Well, they took over and 2,000,000 people were eliminated. Should these type of things be resisted?


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David Winter

 2019/11/8 12:16Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1075
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: we live by the sacrifices of others



There is no way out of it.

We all live our lives based on the sacrifices of others.

There is not a single area of life where someone who has gone before us did not sacrifice, suffer, endure hardship in some form in order to achieve something good...and we are the direct beneficiaries of it.

We all live by anothers leave.

If your convictions restrict you from making hard decisions with powerful ramifications that you in all other circumstances would not make or do...you still owe a debt of thanks to those who did do what you would not do or could not do.

A man who will not defend his own neighbor from murder or some other hateful crime cannot be said in any form to have 'loved' his neighbor. That man must depend upon others that will hazard themselves and all that they have in order to preserve the lives of others.

This discussion forum itself is a testimony to the benefits that others in history long past and history of a few years have been granted us...because someone else viewed the world we live in as more than simply a 'narrow gate' and now that they are saved...to hell with everyone else theyre ok.

No, they forfeited their time and money, their health and their lives for an opportunity for their children and their neighbors to live in peace without being oppressed and imprisoned.

Christianity is not "all about me and my salvation", that kind of Christianity is for the foolish. Christianity is about Jesus living out his life through us.

He lives through us sacrificially, with a willingness to suffer, endure hardness, persecution, poverty, nakedness, peril...because God is glorified in our willingness to go where Jesus sends us.

God sends men to war...this is so abundantly true from the scripture its impossible to miss it.
But to counter the idea that God would do this under the new covenant they show Jesus as the passive and meek lamb that didn't come into the world to judge it. But there's more to that story, and much more to consider than the specific mission and ministry of Jesus.

I am not in any way seeking to diminish the conviction of a man or woman who will not take up arms. But I am saying as best I can, those who will not must also consider their peaceful situation didn't arise from God keeping men home in their beds and playing with children.
God sent them out...and they went with the same conviction as those who hold to passivity.


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Marvin

 2019/11/8 14:36Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3441
Louisiana

 Re:

I found this article to be interesting. During the American Reveloution the "Black Robes" as they were called came to the pulpit with a bible in one hand and a musket in the other:

The Black Robed Regiment: Preachers who fought
Dec 20, 2010

By Dan Fisher



On Sunday morning, Jan 21, 1776, pastor John Muhlenberg climbed into his pulpit in Woodstock, VA to preach. In his black clerical robe, the traditional dress of 18th century preachers, Muhlenberg preached from the third chapter of Ecclesiastes. He read how there is a time for all things. There’s a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to harvest. Then his voice began to rise as he said: “There’s a time of war, and a time of peace. There is a time for all things, a time to preach and a time to pray. But there is also a time to fight, and that time has now come!”

Then he did something his congregation did not expect. He removed his clerical robe revealing a colonial officer’s uniform beneath. Muhlenberg then stepped down from his pulpit and challenged the men of his congregation to join him in the fight for liberty.

Just a few days before, he had been commissioned by General George Washington to raise a regiment from the Woodstock area. As Muhlenberg walked down the aisle and out the door of his church, a drum began to roll outside. One by one, the men of Muhlenberg’s congregation filed out of the auditorium and volunteered to follow their courageous pastor.

Bidding farewell to their families, some three hundred men rode away from Woodstock, VA with Col. John Muhlenberg in the lead to form the 8th Virginia regiment. Muhlenberg led those men throughout the War of Independence, fighting at the battles of Morristown, Brandywine, and Monmouth Courthouse. By the war’s end, Muhlenberg had been promoted to Major General and had become one of Washington’s most valued commanders. Muhlenberg was front and center at the surrender of Cornwallis at Yorktown.

James Caldwell was pastor of the First Presbyterian Church in Elizabethtown, New Jersey. Because of his strong stand for liberty and his sermons encouraging the colonists to fight, he had made himself numerous enemies. So he would step into his pulpit each Sunday wearing two pistols, place them on the pulpit, and then proceed to preach powerful sermons about the need for Christians to stand for truth. When the war began, Caldwell became a chaplain in the colonial army. He was so hated by the British they called him the “Rebel Priest.”

When the war finally came to Elizabethtown, during the fighting, the British killed Caldwell’s wife. By the time he had completed her funeral, the fighting had moved to Springfield, New Jersey so Caldwell rode there to join his men. During the fighting, the colonists were running out of wadding for their muskets. Caldwell jumped on his horse and rode to the First Presbyterian Church of Springfield and gathered up two armloads of hymnals written by Isaac Watts, a popular hymn writer of the era. He hurried back to his troops, threw the hymnals at their feet, and commanded them to tear out the pages and use them for wadding. As he did so, he yelled, “Give’m Watts boys, give’m Watts!” This is origin of the famous phrase, “Give’m watt for!”

On the night of April 18, 1775, as Paul Revere was making his famous ride through the Lexington, Massachusetts countryside yelling, “The British are coming! The British are coming!” he was headed for a particular house; the house of pastor Jonas Clark. Jonas Clark was a pastor in Lexington and on Sunday afternoons after church, he and Deacon John Parker, a captain from the French Indian War, had been organizing the Lexington men into a citizen army to fight the British if they invaded. On the night of April 18, Clark had two special guests staying in his home, Samuel Adams and John Hancock. The British had heard of Adams’ and Hancock’s whereabouts and they were marching toward Lexington to capture them.

As Revere rode up to the front yard of Clark’s home, Clark, Adams, and Hancock ran out to meet him. When they heard that the British were marching toward Lexington, Adams and Hancock asked pastor Clark if the men of Lexington would fight. Clark responded, “I trained them for this very hour; they would fight, and, if need be, die, too, under the shadow of the house of God.”

The next morning, April 19, 1775, Pastor Jonas Clark and Deacon John Parker led the Lexington “Minutemen” out to face the invaders. As the British approached the Minutemen, they cried out “in the name of the King of England throw down your arms.” This response rang out from the colonists, “We recognize no Sovereign but God and no King but Jesus!” Then Captain Parker said to his Minutemen, “Stand your ground, don’t fire unless fired upon. But if they mean to have a war, let it begin here.” Then the first shot rang out, the shot heard around the world.

These are just three examples of the courage and commitment exhibited by many of the colonial pastors in the days before and during our nation’s War of Independence. These men saw no contradiction between standing for the truths in God’s Word and the principles of liberty. In fact, they viewed the two as inseparable. These “black robed patriot preachers” fanned the flames of liberty as they not only encouraged their congregations to fight but were also willing to actually lead their men onto the battlefield. These preachers fought.

The British viewed these pastors such a force, they called them the “Black Robed Regiment.” King George III blamed the war on the preachers by calling it a “Presbyterian rebellion.” Horace Walpole, the English Prime Minister, said, “There is no use crying about it. Cousin America has eloped with a Presbyterian parson.” Although Presbyterian preachers were certainly involved, preachers from practically every denomination joined in the fight.

Today, many believe that had these pastors not been involved, America may never have been born. Now contrast this with the behavior of most American preachers today. In the face of gross abuses of our liberties by an over-reaching federal government that is moving our nation, with ever increasing speed, down the road to Socialism, most pastors are shamefully, strangely silent. Instead of leading their people to boldly and publically stand for liberty and truth, they seem content to huddle in their churches, behind their pulpits, while the country falls apart.

We desperately need a modern generation of preachers like Muhlenberg, Caldwell, and Clark – preachers who’ll fight. We need a new “black robed regiment” to boldly lead our citizens to defend our biblically based Constitution. Thankfully, the fight right now is not one of bullets and bombs but is one of words and wills. But make no mistake about it; a war is raging for the heart and soul of America.

Jesus said that we must “render to God the things that are God’s and render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.” In America, Caesar is “we the people.” America’s government is not in D.C. or in state capitols; it is in our homes and our churches. We are the government. We cannot obey Jesus by staying uninvolved. We must enter the fight for liberty and truth or our freedom to speak and worship as we see fit may soon be lost forever.

Like John Muhlenberg in 1776, I believe “There is a time to preach and a time to pray. But there is also a time to fight, and that time has now come!” God give us patriot preachers to lead the way.


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Mike

 2019/11/8 15:47Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3441
Louisiana

 Re:

"The next morning, April 19, 1775, Pastor Jonas Clark and Deacon John Parker led the Lexington “Minutemen” out to face the invaders. As the British approached the Minutemen, they cried out “in the name of the King of England throw down your arms.” This response rang out from the colonists, “We recognize no Sovereign but God and no King but Jesus!” Then Captain Parker said to his Minutemen, “Stand your ground, don’t fire unless fired upon. But if they mean to have a war, let it begin here.” Then the first shot rang out, the shot heard around the world."

"These men saw no contradiction between standing for the truths in God’s Word and the principles of liberty. In fact, they viewed the two as inseparable. These “black robed patriot preachers” fanned the flames of liberty as they not only encouraged their congregations to fight but were also willing to actually lead their men onto the battlefield. These preachers fought."


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Mike

 2019/11/8 15:53Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1703


 Re: Honor Veterans/Military?

Wesley, you are making a very good point.

As a Christian, I do not believe it is right to be part of Military.

A Church should not celebrate Veterans day etc. If we see the real spirit, it is done more to please people. If we please people then we cannot be a servant of Christ.
Jesus never prayed for a nation but only for disciples. He even specifically said he will only pray for disciples. So all these concepts of praying for Nation is not Christlike.

But I also believe Christian principles cannot be applied to a nation. No country can be run by Bible especially by NT. So to protect every country needs its Army. But a Church can stay from be neutral not taking any part in this worldly system.


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Sreeram

 2019/11/8 17:47Profile
whaakenson
Member



Joined: 2016/10/11
Posts: 7
Jacksonville, FL USA

 Re:

Amen thanks Sree. I've already made up my mind about the whole matter. I've been thinking about it for a long time. Just wanted others perspectives. I guess it's not worth dividing the body of Christ or maybe. Have a great Thanksgiving!


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Wesley Haakenson

 2019/11/8 22:30Profile
whaakenson
Member



Joined: 2016/10/11
Posts: 7
Jacksonville, FL USA

 Re:

Hi everyone. So sorry, sorry Sree. I've been troubled by this and I'm not 100% sure I'm right on this issue. I do have to give account. So, although it seems right I'm not sure. Anyway I retract my statement and will delete it later today. Blessings everyone, happy Thanksgiving!


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Wesley Haakenson

 2019/11/9 10:33Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2021
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

From the little research I've done in the past it seems that there have been many wars fought for corrupt reasons that have been covered up by those high places. The Gulf War is just one of many I think. Seems it was fought for oil and money under the guise of nuclear threat defense. I know that many US soldiers are naive and ignorant regarding those kinds of corrupt motives, and they mean well. Many risk their lives for what they think is a good cause. But lets not be so naive as to think all US wars have been fought for just causes. A little research will clearly show otherwise imo.

As Christians, we need to be very careful as to what we support. I would not recommend for Christians to join the military due to all the corruption involved in political wars. I do not fully trust politicians to make right decisions about what wars to start or fight in. That said, this is not an essential difference that needs to divide us.


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Oracio

 2019/11/9 10:53Profile





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