In another thread, a question was posed that got me to thinking....🤔
It does indeed seem that we all have quite a different understanding/definition of what it means to be Christlike. This itself (if correct) would clearly run in opposition to what the scriptures plainly teach regarding “being of one mind” - “members of one body”- “strive to maintain unity” etc.... So this presented a series of questions, that through prayer, have been distilled down to this one;
“Can a person become Christlike (be conformed into the image of Christ - till Christ be fully formed in you) without PERSONALLY hearing and following/obeying the Lords voice?
| 2019/11/5 7:07||Profile|
| Re: Christlikeness?|
I do not want to seem obtuse but I was wondering if you could define what you mean by “personally hearing... the Lord’s voice?”
For example, my wife is much much more likely to say “I heard the Lord tell me..” than I would be. She says it on a regular basis. What she means is not that she read something in the Word that spoke to her- she means she actually heard the Lord speak to her. I have heard the Lord speak to me in that way but it is rare. It is probably because she is a better believer than I am. Or it might be that the Lord communicates with us in different ways.
So I guess I am trying to figure out exactly what you mean before I can consider your question as a whole.
| 2019/11/5 9:34||Profile|
| Re: brother Todd|
/ if you could define what you mean by “personally hearing... the Lord’s voice?”/
What is intended is the scriptural precedent that permeates throughout all scripture... wether it be Elijah, Jonah, Joseph, Moses, Abraham, etc... they all “heard” the Lord’s command personally and responded each in their own way. So while an assertion that they all “heard” the same way would (for me) be presumptuous, they nonetheless showed they “heard” by following Him in faithful obedience :) like in a “ My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:” kinda way-
I hope that helps to clarify somewhat without attempting to limit God to one mode of communication with His children 🙏🏻
As He is able to “from these stones raise up children” 😇 surely those “stones” had to hear Him ;)
| 2019/11/5 10:59||Profile|
| Re: |
I can only be brief, at this time,.. (appointment to keep)
* you ask,” What does it mean to be Christlike “ ?
Jesus was The Image Of His Father,..
It means to be in The image of His Father, God.
And who is God,.. but The Spirit / Word,.. He Who speaketh,.. Voice,.. Breath.
With The Word, comes obligation, to His Word,... NO way around it .. I would say.
Christlike / Word-like,.. Father-like
* to be a follower of Jesus, is to be a follower of God,.. He who speaks to us, by / through His Spirit.
Why would The Word not just say ‘Jesus’ ?
What does the Word ‘Christ’ mean ?
Art Katz said the Word ‘Christ was a title.
| 2019/11/6 8:46||Profile|
| Re: sister Elizabeth |
Ha! Yes this is more in the direction of my thinking :)
And tho I’d never heard brother Katz state that, I def agree and have a theory regarding this that I’m presently testing in scripture-
So sister, do you think it’s necessary to personally hear the Lords voice in order to be conformed into the image of the son?
| 2019/11/6 9:35||Profile|
| The key is an ACTIVE relationship|
I think it is clear that we all need an ACTIVE relationship with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit to be conformed.
| 2019/11/7 12:57||Profile|
| Re: Christlikeness?|
Can a person become Christlike (be conformed into the image of Christ - till Christ be fully formed in you) without PERSONALLY hearing and following/obeying the Lords voice?
Again, and to this ☝🏼point... in the garden after they sinned and fell, when the Lord came they (Adam&Eve) hid themselves declaring they were “naked”... the Lord asked them “who told you that?”
So from the very beginning we see a direct correlation between hearing and obeying the personal word of God with maintaining our fellowship with Him- clearly they “heard” a voice whom told them they were naked and they identified with/as it.... 🤔 this (for me) holds a lesson.
If faith come by hearing, and hearing by the word of God- who’s voice is informing us? Who’s image are we being conformed into? Is it the Jesus that’s revealed in scripture or is it our “idea” about who He is? 🤔
Food for thought<\\\><
| 2019/11/11 9:15||Profile|
| Re: what do you think? |
Hi Fletcher: I believe the scriptural answer is yes...hearing the voice of the Lord is packaged with conformity to Christ.
What we don't get to include in that package is standardization.
The western way of 12 yrs of education, college, plenty of reading, bible studies, prayer groups etc...over against
illiteracy, or very scant availability of a bible.
Our western conformity to Christ carries with it a great deal of personal advantages that multitudes of millions never had or will have.
Listen to Jackie Pullinger...and you have 1 day old believers hearing God and prophecying...and listen to other preachers and you have pastors teaching God's written word is the 'only' voice to be trusted and therefore the only 'voice' that is given. But where is that voice to be heard? By their preaching...and so supplanting the voice of the Holy Spirit with a full dependence on the voice of someone behind a pulpit.
From the outset conformity to Christ is actuated by believing the sheep do not hear Christ outside of the pulpit or outside of just reading their bibles.
The dynamic of Jesus leading me in all my specific circumstances has been trumped by telling me I am unable to call what I hear "the voice of God". This forces me into dependence upon specific men who claim authority over me, then tell me their interpretations, their leaders and their teachings are the final and authoritative 'voice' in all matter of my life.
Am I called? They will tell me. Am I gifted? They will tell me. Am I to go here or do this or that? They must tell me.
And seeing as they too cannot hear specifics about anything must only offer some vague scripture reference they understand with their thinking.
In this way all supernatural living and dependence upon God is stripped from the believer, they are in fact disciples of their teachers, not disciples of Christ...whom they are taught they cannot hear outside of their teacher.
| 2019/11/11 11:45||Profile|
| Re: stolen crowns|
These are very much the same observations that helped me to start this thread so that they may be brought out in the light of day and weighed...
So when Jesus said to Peter,... “upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” - do you understand Him to be referring to the revelation that was “not from flesh and bone but from my Father who is in heaven” ?
So is it possible to even be born again without a personal revelation of who Jesus is and what the Father has accomplished thru Him?
| 2019/11/11 14:35||Profile|
| Re: |
I’m back now, and will try to answer your question.
“ So sister, do you think it’s necessary to personally hear the Lords voice in order to be conformed into the image of the son?”
So to this I would say YES.
We must hear His voice, to even come to Him.
He calls us by The Word of His Grace.
We, like Adam & Eve,.. then knew we were naked,.. undone,.. in need to be clothed upon by The Lord.(repentance,.. from those filthy rags)
So, Faith does come by hearing,and hearing by The Word of God.
“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
* In This Chapter Of Galatians , the emphasis is on 2 Words,.. ( not just on the Word ‘FAITH’ as many people allude to)
The other Word is ‘The Spirit’
It is of / or / through ‘The Spirit’ that we,.. as Noah, Abraham, etc, ‘HEARD’,
( the true example of ‘FAITH’,... it was The Faith,that came by hearing,
God’ Voice.... (The Word of God)
That was The Voice that we heard at the beginning,.. but did we follow on to ‘believe’ that, that was the Voice Of God instructing, .. drawing us, to His Way / will, ...just as He was instructing Abraham, and the like ?
....... Here-in is ‘the Faith of Abraham’....
Hearing, believing, obeying: ‘Faith’ ,.....
Is this not Abraham’s Faith ?.. and are we
.... Abraham’s children ?
The Spirit of God, that is with-in us, IS, The Spirit of The Word,...
In essence Paul is saying, ... who has bewitched these people, into continuing on w/ ‘the Law’,... The Spirit has NOW COME., for you,..(us)
To be guided / led by The Spirit of God,....Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by The Word of God) .... Faith
| 2019/11/11 16:31||Profile|