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Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Brethren, after watching this other recent interview which I hadn’t checked out yet, my reasons for being suspicious and cautious were more solidified:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuOCvKvrwI8

Once again throughout the interview there were no signs of being truly repentant and humbled by God’s amazing grace. He did intersperse a few positive thinking Christian comments here and there but that’s about it.

These are some notable quotes from the interview:

"I'm unquestionably, undoubtedly, the greatest human artist of all time. It's just not even a question anymore."

“I’ve never been just okay, I’ve always been amazing. So they want me to operate on a just okay format.”

He is scheduled to speak at Joel Osteen’s church this coming Sunday.

It’s clear that to him, he has started his own church and has launched a Christian movement. As brother Robert has reasoned here, that is not a good thing even if he was a true believer (I’m even more suspicious of that claim of faith now).

To me, it seems that he had an experience whereby he was “reformed” and was and is being “delivered” from certain destructive and immoral vices. Based on my understanding of God’s Word and based on certain things I’ve seen and experienced, that in itself does not constitute a true conversion whereby I should wholeheartedly embrace someone and provide the right hand of fellowship. One can have a certain type of lifestyle reformation when joining a false religion or cult.


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Oracio

 2019/11/13 16:13Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 660
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

Thank you for those thoughts Alec and Oracio.

So many times I have seen people make a profession of faith only to see it was never the real thing in the first place.

I could be charitable and ascribe those two statements you quoted to his spiritual immaturity; however an association to Joel Osteen is cause for serious concern.

I will not label Kanye as a false convert as of right now. I think the attitude Joe Schimmell expressed, wait and see the fruit he produces, is the best course of action.


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Nigel Holland

 2019/11/13 18:47Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

You're welcome Nigel. I hear you. I shared those two quotes because they stood out, but I believe those two quotes can represent the overall tone I heard in that whole interview as well as other interviews and at his Sunday Service. Many who are caught up in the prosperity gospel display that kind of pride and arrogance overall.

This is another thing that comes to mind. From having sold his soul to the devil in the past (he admitted that some years ago at a concert), he was very possessed. It's possible that he may have gotten some deliverance from demons though not a full deliverance.

It's clear that he's been fighting against any warnings concerning the prosperity gospel as well as false religions and cults.

I do hope and pray that this turns out to be an instance of a true and radical conversion of a big name celebrity for the glory of God, and that the true gospel would go forth and bring many to the true Jesus and not to another jesus. But I also don't want to willingly and knowingly be naive after discerning certain things that should cause me to pause before celebrating.


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Oracio

 2019/11/13 21:19Profile
emma02
Member



Joined: 2019/2/22
Posts: 6
Nigeria

 Re:

whether his repentance is genuine or not,it is not up to us to judge him. Why make him a subject of discussion in the forum? I don't think that is Christ like enough.


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Inalegwu

 2019/11/14 0:58Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5390
NC, USA

 Re:

It’s fairly well known that Kanye struggles with mental health issues so that must be added into this equation.

What does it look like when a person with these types of illnesses get converted?

Maybe not exactly like a mentally healthy person.


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Todd

 2019/11/14 7:23Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3238
Texas

 Re:

Some of the quick judgmental attitudes on this thread, is why the Church is in the mess it's in today. Wouldn't praying for the man, be better than judging him? Do we judge because of our own selfish interests? What I see here is the pouring out of many with critical spirits. Jesus explained why a judgmental attitude is so dangerous, "God will be as hard on you as you are on others! He will treat you exactly as you treat them".

In Matthew 7:1-2 "Do not judge others, and you will not be judged"."2" "Or For God will judge you as you judge others".Or The measure you give will be the measure you get back. Yes, I know many will post scriptures to combat the scriptures in Matthew above, but I would ask, go take a long look, I mean long look in your mirror, then if you feel the need to continue to judge Kanye, well then, knock your lights out.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/11/14 8:24Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1277
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Let the man speak for himself...

Here’s an (applicable) excerpt from a song from the accused which seems to speak to the concerns being raised-

“ I deserve all the criticism you got
If that's all the love you have, that's all you got
To sing of change, you think I'm joking
To praise His name, you ask what I'm smoking
Yes, I understand your reluctancy, yeah
But I have a request, you see
Don't throw me up, lay your hands on me
Please, pray for me”

Too much to ask?


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Fletcher

 2019/11/14 8:56Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Alec, I too want to thank you for what you shared. Very interesting bit of history which was before my time.

If we were at a Mickey D’s sipping on a hot brew in the winter or a cold Frappe in the summer (which I like better than Starbucks, sorry Starbucks lovers), this is what I envision. If you asked me if I heard the good news about Kanye’s recent conversion and the good things he seems to be doing for the kingdom, this is what I’d probably say in response. I’d say I have my reservations after doing certain research, and I’d explain why I was very suspicious and cautious. If you went on to insist that my reasons were unfounded, this is what I’d say: If you want to believe wholeheartedly that Kanye had a true conversion and that this is a work and move of God, I respect that brother. We can respectfully agree to disagree on this non-essential issue which does not affect us on a practical level right now. All I ask is that you equally respect my opinion or viewpoint on this issue. Now, let’s go preach the gospel, shall we?


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Oracio

 2019/11/14 11:15Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3238
Texas

 Re:

When a lot of Shepherds today are not preaching the "TRUE" gospel, and their messages are designed to tickle the ears, it's a bit confusing to the secular world. So, if we have anyone to blame for some folks accepting and then rejecting the gospel, it's some of the Pastors ear tickling messages. Kanye, probably has been drawn in by the ear ticklers, "but that's just my guess" I agree with emma02/Inalegwu, "whether his repentance is genuine or not, it is not up to us to judge him". Maybe the "CHURCH" is the one that needs to be judged, because if Christ come back today, the Church would be held more accountable than Kanye would right now.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/11/14 12:35Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1138
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Oracio: I really like the way you work this out in your own mind.

Cautiousness and skepticism are states of mind, as such it seems their purpose would be for defense against exploitation or deception. That's a good thing. If cautiousness and skepticism are from some other kind of carnal bias, they in fact lead me into deception about the matter at hand.

But if we were to sit down together...sipping our latte's and discussing this matter, I would share your state of mind as well, but I would also say " Lets ask God to put Kanye in front of Godly men who are not the slightest bit intimated or wowed by Kanye's status in the world. Let's ask God to give him the discipleship he needs to live for Jesus as he ought".

Kanye would not be the first person to think that what he has in wealth and power he can use to his own advantage as a Christian.

But more important than a state of mind is a dependence of faith upon God in which way I should think and act so that whatever brakes have been applied to 'receiving' everything I am told to believe about Kanye...I do not put brakes on acting godly and righteously toward him.

I don't say any of this as if you don't know it, I am saying it for the benefit of others that may not.


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Marvin

 2019/11/14 16:41Profile





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