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Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
For the record; after I was converted and baptized (in prison) I went straight back to a life of crime... actually committing the largest one I had to date and you know what, the Lord covered me because I was His. Though because I was His, the success of this sin no longer held any pleasure for me and without even realizing it, I gave it up in large part because the desire of my heart had changed. Though for another decade I continued to sin rather consistently and with a certain entitlement till one day (after Jesus just kept giving me more of Himself) I realized I liked being with Jesus more than I liked smoking weed and getting high... so I thought I’ll just hang out with Jesus instead of going to get stoned but I quickly found out I HAD to go get stoned... I was a slave (addicted) to it and didn’t even know it. Now mind you I had been promoting Jesus and all He had done for me publicly and yet I was in bondage to sin. It was then and there that He told me He could “take that from me” if I wanted Him to.... and only because He had ALREADY deposited the faith in my account and had been training me to hear and trust and follow His voice, having His grace abound towards me, was I able to yield to Him and allow Him to set me free from the spirit of addiction



Respectfully brother, based on what you described there it sounds like you had a false conversion experience. I just don’t see biblically how one can continue to get stoned and continue in a life of crime for years, even a decade, and be born again. To me that contradicts all the many scriptures on what a true conversion is and looks like. It’s like saying one can continue to steal, fornicate, rape and murder and be born again.

I’ve even seen active gang members who think they are born again while continuing in their gang activities. Yet as a former gang member myself who was saved in prison, when I was born again there was a radical and powerful work of God in my heart and life. However, as I mentioned earlier, some years before experiencing true conversion, I experienced a false conversion while in jail. Many experience what is known as a “jailhouse conversion” that only lasts while they’re in jail or may last a little bit after they get out.

When one is truly born again, those kinds of chains are broken by the power of the gospel and one is set free. Remember, Scripture speaks of those who have a form of godliness but deny the power of true Spirit-empowered godliness.

Many can talk a good one about being on fire for Jesus or having a right relationship with Jesus while remaining unrepentant and dead in trespasses and sins. I think this is a good example of that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FRSbjlTxsQ

Have I fallen into blatant sins after being born again? Yes, to my shame I looked at pornography and fell into fornication a few times before I got married. But by God’s grace I did not continue in those sins as I repented and continued on in sanctification.

A key difference is in the fact that a true believer may at times “struggle with” and “battle against” certain serious or blatant sins, such as fornication or looking at pornography, while a false convert will be comfortable in their sin and seek to justify it when confronted about it.

Just my thoughts brother. You can take it with a grain of salt of course.


_________________
Oracio

 2019/11/9 19:44Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1244
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Savannah

You well know exactly what you were saying, and what you were putting forth as a standard by “cherry picking” the scriptures and using particular verses to do what amounts to a “digital drive-by shooting”-

If you can’t see that this is what you’re doing then perhaps you should sit this one out... if you are aware and are doing it anyway then I pray the Lord have mercy on you 🙏🏻


_________________
Fletcher

 2019/11/9 19:48Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re: Good Fight Ministries on Kanye West

There are so many people in the past, that lived lives a lot worse than Kanye, that become Christians and did, and some still doing, many things for Christ. You see, God is changing millions of lives all around the world every day! God is doing a supernatural work by setting people free from bondage and bringing them into a joyful new life filled with blessing and purpose.

The Scriptures claim to be able to change a life forever, and we see examples of that all around the world every day! I never see people set free from addictions such as alcoholism or drug abuse as a result of deciding to drop Christianity and turn their lives over to atheism. How many people who are in bondage to self-destructive behaviors have been set free and changed forever because they turned away from God?

How many airplanes loaded with atheists flew to Haiti a couple years ago in order to help those who were devastated from the earthquakes? You don’t hear of that sort of thing, but you do hear about thousands upon thousands of Christians doing such a thing. Why? Because God has changed their lives – forever!


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2019/11/9 19:58Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1244
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Oracio

It may well be the case, tho I would say that the conversion wasn’t false so much as incomplete... see we can come to faith in Christ and yet not be mature enough to stand on our own and without the support of a church or elder brothers to disciple us we tend to fall back into the “ruts” or well worn paths of our life before coming to faith in Christ.
When the Lord baptized my with His Holy Spirit then things changed quickly & radically, to such an extent that people literally couldn’t believe it.
Have I had similar experiences as you where I failed the grace of God? Yes and like you it was to my shame but that was many years after my initial conversion/baptism. (For me) my experience was more of a seed that was planted and found good ground but had no water... but when the water came 🙏🏻😇 then came the sprouts, the growth, the fruits and they continue to this day<\\\><


_________________
Fletcher

 2019/11/9 20:24Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re: brother Fletcher

Appreciate the input and feedback.


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Oracio

 2019/11/9 20:51Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re:

I think all folks need to worry about their own sin, because God isn't going to ask you about mine.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2019/11/9 21:17Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

How could God’s amazing grace possibly save a wretch like Kanye West?


_________________
Todd

 2019/11/9 21:27Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

In many respects, before coming to Christ I was probably a worse sinner than Kanye West ever was. If God can save a wretch like me I don't doubt for a second that He can save Kanye. But lets keep it real here. Not everything that glitters is gold sometimes.


_________________
Oracio

 2019/11/9 22:37Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Brother Oracio,

Again, I get where you’re coming from but,... when did Kanye “set himself up to be a teacher” ?
Everyone keeps sayin things like that but -
Seems like he’s just witnessing and again where do the scriptures EVER license us to throw rocks at other believers that we’ve never even met?
Please site those scriptures for me because in my ignorance I keep missing them.
I don’t know Kanye, and will probably never meet him this side of heaven,... but I will offer praise to God for what He has done!

I mean 38,000,000 people downloaded the album Jesus is King in the first 12 hrs it was available!
So even if this is some super elaborate scheme of the devil who intends it for evil.... even if that is the case here,... Our God will use EVEN THAT to the good to glorify His Son our Lord Jesus 🙏🏻😇

It honestly seems like you all don’t want him to be a Christian!
I mean this is really ridiculous to even be having this discussion!
Because IF ANY of you detractors were spending half as much time before the Lord in prayer on behalf of this young brother, his wife, and their children then you all wouldn’t have time to cynically offer your public unbelief-

Why do christians kill their young!??



I had missed that post and just now saw and read it a few minutes ago and thought, “I gotta respond to that post lol.”

Towards Kanye setting himself up as a teacher, in some ways he is definitely teaching, whether it be in his new album which reeks of a prosperity gospel message, at his Sunday church services in which he’s said that Mormons and Catholics should get a pass from Evangelicals, or at interviews in which he’s mentioned telepathy and some weird psychology of color perception.

He’s too smart to try to start any kind of extensive Bible teaching or preaching because he knows he doesn’t know the Bible that well. That can be either a good thing or a cunning thing.

If you want to say that for us to exercise discernment and to test the spirits to see if they are from God is, “throwing rocks at other believers that we’ve never even met,” that’s on you brother.

Should we really just embrace and applaud any and all celebrities who say they’re a Christian, without testing their spirit according to the Word of God? The fact that we’ve never met certain famous individuals does not prohibit from sharing exhortations of caution with one another regarding embracing said individuals as brethren. If there is a false movement within Christianity and many are being duped by it, isn’t it right for others who are aware of it to provide warnings about it, regardless of whether or not one personally knows the one/s leading the movement?

“It honestly seems like you all don’t want him to be a Christian!”

Actually brother, I want him to be a true believer and not one of millions who’ve been deceived by a cheap grace message void of true repentance.

It seems many of us only want to hear all the positive things from the media and refuse to consider any negative things revealed in other reports. I think it’s wise for us to seek to consider the whole of a matter before jumping into certain conclusions. As they say, there are two sides to every story.


_________________
Oracio

 2019/11/10 0:38Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

If he’s not truly saved there’s nothing we can do about it. Might as well let God worry about it if He is so inclined.


_________________
Todd

 2019/11/10 7:27Profile





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