| Any tips? Wolfs in Sheep Clothing|
Now, ive asked my pastor, and a guest at my church. "Who do you know that major on this topic 'exposing wolfs that are in sheeps clothing'?" He replied Derek Prince, yet im to find one great thing from hin on this topic, maybe im just not a good researcher (ah...college soon, i hope thats not true).
I've seen some different sites on this topic, but NO ONE that i've seen DOES IT.
I've had an encounter with the "famous" Rodney Howard-Browne and he lives in my area. 'Tampa Bay area'. He comes to my city once a month now..(3rd month this month..ekk).
My spirit did turns, other seekers of God that i KNEW PERSONALLY felt a little uneasy about it. They were 'pushed over', 'no solid testimonies on healings' etc..
I wanted to shout, cry, scream, and just say 'Lord, why wont you burn this man?'. I know, i know what the Lord said to His disciples... But i never really prayed this. It was just how i felt. My heart was yurning...it was crying..i wanted to just weap....to hear such a person to try to deceive God's people.....oh my!
I never grew up in the Pentacostal circles....i grew up baptist, but tested everything. I never thought 'wolfs' would really live so close to me. I wanted to TRULY WEAP...you have no idea, even now it breaks my heart........it ...ugh..
All in all, after this, holy anger raged in me, it was Holy. We asked the Lord to truly save those who needed to hear His voice, cause HIS WORD DOESNT RETURN VOID. No matter who plants the seed.
Me and my friend got in trouble for 'laying hands on someone' when anyone in any church would say 'that person is just praying for them with their hand on her arm'. SHE ASKED US TO PRAY, SHE WAS IN A WHEELCHAIR, ASKING FOR A MIRACLE. HOW DOES THAT BREAK YOUR HEART! It breaks mine. Then latter to get rebuke by the 'leaders' of Browne's ministry.
Browne is false, i dont care what you think, let God break away those WICKED SCALES. You have to be really in satan's domain to receive such lies.
Again, Who majors on such tings? Exposing Wolfs in sheeps clothing... id like some audio and video, and worthly articles and such..plz
| 2005/7/13 1:30|
| Re: Any tips? Wolfs in Sheep Clothing|
Look for these sermons in the download section:
Ministers of Laciviousness
When Liars Stand Before God's Throne
Run For Your Life
A Heap Of Frogs And A Stinking Land
The Reproach Of The Solemn Assembly
God Is Training A Holy Remnant
The Famine Has Begun
A Reproach Among the Heathen
| 2005/7/13 1:35||Profile|
You have no idea, how much of help that was!!
| 2005/7/13 1:42|
anymore....im not closing the book on this...
| 2005/7/13 11:20|
| Re: Any tips? Wolfs in Sheep Clothing|
I've had an encounter with Rodney Howard Browne (as well as with a counterpart of his, Chris Harvey). I attended a "crusade" starring Rodney Howard Browne, and my heart ached because of the blatantly false displays -- and the accusation that much of these displays were "the work of the Holy Spirit." I felt so incredibly grieved inside of me!
A few months later, Chris Harvey (a lesser known "evangelist" who claims to have traveled with Rodney Howard Browne and who also claims to "carry the same annointing") traveled to the church that I attended at the time. The services were nearly identical to those of Rodney Howard Browne.
The services began with each man telling everyone what was "about to happen" by using anecdotes of his previous meetings' events. They tell the congregation that "entire" congregations of those churches "fall under the power of uncontrollable holy laughter." Then, as the service progresses, the man prays for each willing member of the congregation -- waiting until they begin to laugh uncontrollably. While praying, he constantly tells them "not to worry about reputation because that will hinder the Holy Spirit's move in your life" while also warning the member, "don't fight against God." Talk about soulish peer-pressure! Most people eventually fell down and laughed uncontrollably, but many later admitted that they did it because they felt pressured to.
What strikes me as characteristic of nearly all of these "holy laughter" (or [i]gold-filling, gold-dust, stretched-leg, frozen-believer[/i]) type of "ministries" is the emphasis on the [u]physical[/u] results or manifestations -- and almost never on the work of God in the hearts of either believers or unbelievers.
Sure, they end up pointing out the small amount of people who ever-so-often are amazed at such events and who seem nearly afraid of what they have seen (but have not experienced) and [i]seem[/i] to eagerly repent. But almost all of the time in the services is spent "enjoying the manifestations of the Holy Spirit." There is hardly any preaching. There is hardly any intimate worship. And worse of all, there is hardly any Word of God (other than a few Scriptures that are taken out of context). It almost seems that the congregation totally neglects Christ in favor of what they perceive as the physical works of the Holy Spirit.
Can God do the things that these men point as a work of the Spirit? God can do [u]anything[/u]! But there are some things that God [i]will not[/i] do -- because it is against his very nature as made clear by his Word. We can only test such things through the Word of God, and not by the experiences of man. God can and does miracles -- but God will not surrender any of his glory to men.
I attended those services, as I attend all services, without any preconceived ideas about either men. That is perhaps why I felt so heartbroken. I didn't judge whether or not these men were [i]intentionally[/i] preaching and teaching such false doctrines. It might be entirely possible that they are doing it believing that they are doing a work for God. But irregardless of the motivations of these men, the Word is entirely clear that these men are not preaching the Truth.
Thus, the greatest book concerning whether or not any doctrine is true or false is, of course, the Word of God. But what about wolves?
It is so difficult to know whether or not such men are truly wolves. Like I said, it is entirely possible that some preachers truly believe what they are teaching. But does that make them a wolf? The Word is clear that while we cannot judge the heart or intentions of man, we can "know a tree by the fruit it bears." Do such meetings, preachings or teachings [i]turn men away from Christ[/i]? Are believers devoured by Satan through such men or meetings?
As a young believer, I was scourned by some of my elders for not unconditionally accepting so much of what was preached, taught or accepted by the leaders or guests in our church. They accused me of having "seeds of doubt" which could "hinder God's will for my life." As an eager and totally sincere young Christian, I cried out to the Lord for help. I didn't want to be "judgmental," yet I didn't want to accept or believe something contrary to God's Word just because I was told that I needed to. I was encouraged through the verse that implores us to [i]work out our own salvation with fear and trembling[/i].
I am under the impression that the best method is to believe [u]nothing[/u] but the Word. We must test everything (I Thessalonians 5) by God's Word (like the Bereans in Acts 17) in order to know the certainty of our beliefs. It is true that God has given us pastors, teachers, and other leaders who are there to "equip the saints," but it is also true that these are still just [i]men[/i].
It is so encouraging that most of our Bible heroes were so utterly flawed! They made mistakes in action and judgment that still makes believers today shutter. In fact, it seems that the "greater" a man or woman was used by God -- the greater the flaw they displayed! If men like David, Saul, Samson, Noah, Solomon, Abraham, Moses, etc... made such mistakes -- then we must realize that we can not trust any preacher or teacher totally -- no matter how pious or sincere! Remember, a man can be [i]sincere[/i], but he can also be [i]sincerely wrong[/i].
I agree with the messages that were mentioned (from Carter Conlon and David Wilkerson) that speak about wolves. There are truly wolves who "prowl" about for self-glory and physical gain (and even those who desire to do damage to the Church). But such men and teachings are no match for a believer who has placed his faith [u]completely[/u] in Christ -- [i]and in Christ alone[/i]! In my opinion, this should be taught to even the youngest of believers.
This understanding has helped me greatly in the last few years. I was greatly disappointed by a pastor who "heard God" tell him things that God obviously did not tell him. Later, I learned that this man was actually "casting lots" in his office during prayer time. He would write different messages on paper, then crumble them up, shuffle them, and then spread them out on his desk. He would then ask God to lead him to the right paper wad. When I confronted him about it, he defended such actions by saying that he was just doing the same thing that Gideon did. I told him that Gideon did not cast lots -- but laid a fleece before the Lord, asking God [i]to do the impossible[/i]! I told him that even after the impossible was accomplished -- [i]Gideon [u]still[/u] did not believe[/i]! So he asked God to do the impossible a second time. Afterward, Gideon accepted what was already told to him! "Throwing paper wads or lots," I told him, "is no different than using an 8-ball found in the toy section of Wal-Mart." Besides, I told him that after the Church was filled with the Holy Spirit, they no longer cast lots. Why? Because now they had a "sure word" from the Lord.
As much as I enjoy messages from this website from men like Leonard Ravenhill, David Wilkerson, A. W. Tozer, etc... -- I still believe that the Lord desires for us to always test everything. These men of God are still [i]men[/i] -- and they are fallible. Anyway, I imagine that you probably already know this. I might just be reinforcing my own thoughts on the matter. I will be praying for you, that the Lord gives you wisdom and discernment though all things. Please do the same for me!
| 2005/7/13 12:56||Profile|
| Re: ministry to discern wolves|
In Neil's thread (on not being negative), he posts something from another website (p5) which quotes Discernment Ministries International. Here's a page of links [url=http://www.emnr.org/links.html]http://www.emnr.org/links.html[/url], though he quotes from a different site, to do with Olsteen.
Thanks for your testimony. Many things ring bells, but, I now see the 'minister' of whom I'm thinking, was small fry compared with these guys who make a lifestyle out of misleading large gatherings. I believe they [i]are[/i] wolves in sheep's clothing, even though you may have no evidence about other activities which could convince you. One thinks of some of Peter's comments in his second epistle.
| 2005/7/13 13:21|
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=15110]"Wolves in Sheep's Clothing" article[/url]
It doesn't name names, but it scripturally outlines a false teachers characteristics. Because it's long it may be best to print off. I hope it helps.
| 2005/7/13 15:39|
As you mention, we are told to test everything.
"Most people eventually fell down and laughed uncontrollably, but many later admitted that they did it because they felt pressured to."
Were these people in your church? Did they admit this in front of the church? Is there any way to contact them?
| 2005/7/13 16:23||Profile|
| Re: Any tips? Wolfs in Sheep Clothing|
Back to your original post:
"Now, ive asked my pastor, and a guest at my church. "Who do you know that major on this topic 'exposing wolfs that are in sheeps clothing'?" He replied Derek Prince, yet im to find one great thing from hin on this topic, maybe im just not a good researcher..."
I am somewhat familiar with Derek Prince's ministry and I am confidant that he does not major on this topic. Perhaps he has good teaching on it, but from what I've seen, he's far from majoring on it.
Do you really think anyone is called to major on this topic?
| 2005/7/13 16:28||Profile|
Y'all are naming names... I cant believe it. This thread is mean spirited and judgemental. How dare you! You should all be ashamed of yourselves!
(Note: Tongue planted firmly in cheek)
| 2005/7/13 16:35|