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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The coming Elijah

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JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 The coming Elijah

Hi,
Quick question. When did Elijah come a second time?

Malachi 4:5 Look, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome Day of the Lord comes

Matthew 11:14 if you're willing to accept it, he [John the Baptist] is the Elijah who is to come.

Matthew 17:10 So the disciples questioned Him, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

17:11"Elijah is coming and will restore everything," He replied.

17:12"But I tell you: Elijah has already come, and they didn't recognize him. On the contrary, they did whatever they pleased to him. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."

17:13Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them about John the Baptist.

BUT

John 1:21 "What then?" they asked him [John the Baptist]. "Are you Elijah?" "I am not," he said. "Are you the Prophet?" "No," he answered.



So my question is, Was John the Baptist Elijah and if not, who was Elijah and when did he come?

Thanks

 2005/7/11 22:30Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re: The coming Elijah


Dear Jaysaved,

Consider that Elijah is one of the two witnesses that are to come during the tribulation. Elijah and probably Moses will come during that period before the Day of the Lord. Rev. 11:3-11

Elijah and Moses were on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus also. Luke 9:28-36

In Christ,
GaryE


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2005/7/11 23:29Profile
Petertutu
Member



Joined: 2005/7/10
Posts: 7


 Re: The coming Elijah

Was John the baptist, Elijah? No! John the baptist was influenced spiritualy with Elijah's ministry. Is Elijah still to come? If you study the characteristics of Elijah and John the baptist there are similarities, "make straight the way of the lord". You must remember Elijah did not die. Will there be an actual physical return of the original Elijah or will the characteristics manifest in someone else? Elijah showed signs and wonders, whereas John the baptist showed none. Jesus says:"This generation is a wicked generation; it seeks for a sign, and yet no sign shall be given to it but the sign of Jonah" Luke 11:29. Sounds like the Bestman was consistent with scripture. If you seek signs and wonders you may be deceived. Do what Jesus says; "follow me"


 2005/7/12 1:21Profile
todd
Member



Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re: The coming Elijah

Jay,

I am fascinated with this topic. I think it's very relevant for our times.

It's interesting that when Jesus was speaking to the multitudes in Matthew 11:14, he qualified his shocking statement about John being Elijah by saying "if you care to accept it." That speaks to me that Jesus knew it wasn't something easy to accept and not everybody would be able to. But in Matthew 17:10-13, when He's talking to His disciples, He simply declares it as a truth that they are to accept, and they understood somehow.

Here's some relevant Scriptures that I think might help you.

Luke 1:16-17
"And he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS BACK TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous; so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

This was spoken to John the Baptists father by the angel Gabriel, about John, before John was born.

Another relevant Scripture:
Mark 9:11-13
"And they asked Him, saying, 'Why is it that the scribes say that Elijah must come first?' And He said to them, 'Elijah does first come and restore all things. And yet how is it written of the Son of Man that He should suffer many things and be treated with contempt? But I say to you, that Elijah has indeed come, and they did to him whatever they wished, just as it is written of him."

It seems to me that Elijah's "second coming" with John the Baptist was only a partial fulfillment of Malachi 4:5-6.

As far as John 1:21, it has bothered me as well. I suppose it is open to interpretation. I personally feel that John didn't know he was Elijah. It seems clear that in a sense he was and in a sense he wasn't. He wasn't just Elijah, he was John the Baptist. And yet he was Elijah, in a sense. I think of it as some kind of mystical connection.

And it kind of reminds me of the mystery of Jesus Himself. Is He man or God? Well, both. Is it correct to say Jesus is a man? Yes. Is it correct to say Jesus is God? Yes.

In the same way. Is it correct to say John was John? Yes. Is is correct to say John was Elijah? Yes.

Mysterious to me? Yes!

What seems to be most relevant to our times is Elijah's [i]third[/i] coming, which seems to be refered to in Mark 9:12 and Matthew 17:11. Both of these seem to indicate a future coming of Elijah. It seems clear that John the Baptist had already died when Jesus made these statements (see Mark 6:27-28 and Matthew 14:10-11), and I don't think there are any other recorded incidents of Elijah coming after this time. Will he come as a man again? Could it be that this time the spirit and power of Elijah will rest on an entire generation to prepare the way for the Lord? Could it be both? We'll see.

 2005/7/12 2:09Profile









 Re: The coming Elijah

Quote:
Malachi 4:5 Look, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome Day of the Lord comes

todd, I enjoyed your answer to this question. I've seen it in other forums but rarely answered with such a blend of Bible study and spiritual intelligence. But, I don't know what anyone else would say and I could be wrong.

The question I'd like to pose here is what is the 'great and awesome day of the Lord' referring to? How do we distinguish this 'day' from other 'day's? Why do we think it is at some time in the future and not already past?

I'm thinking of this in connection with what Jesus accomplished on the cross. If I was in His shoes (Please understand this suggestion as a device for getting a fresh perspective on familiar words.) faced with all that lay ahead of me on earth, which day would I say was my great and awesome (or terrible) day?

Would I really say that my second coming was more great and awesome than the day I slew sin, when I put my faith to the ultimate test and was victorious, on which the rest of history depended? Would I really say that pronouncing judgement was more great and awesome than being the one in whom God Himself judged sin forever? Would I really say that coming back for my Bride, was 'great and awesome' compared with winning the battle I fought single-handedly?

I ask, not to distract the thread from discussing Elijah, but to check out the other terms of reference in the question.

 2005/7/12 9:00
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

The Lord's testimony to John Baptist is astounding...
“And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought. But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.”
(Mark 9:12-13, KJVS)

“He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.”
(John 5:35, KJVS)

“For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
(Luke 7:28, KJVS)Christ's ministry was like the rising sun, while John's was like the morning star. He was the brightest phenomena ever seen until the sun arose with healing in his wings; then John's bright and shining lamp was eclipsed by the greater glory of the Son. John's ministry represents the greates revival that Israel ever saw and in that he 'restored all things' brings the OT experience to its greatest fulfillment during his ministry. “And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.”
(Matt. 3:4-6, KJVS)This record of the pervasivness of John's work is thrilling; Jerusalem, all Judaea, all the region around Jordon. The whole nation was stirred by his ministry.

One aspect of his Elijah-likeness is this feature of 'restoration'. “And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down.”
(1Kings 18:30, KJVS) John Baptist did the same in spirit, preparing a people for God's greatest revelation of Himself. “And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.”
(John 1:31, KJVS)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/7/12 9:09Profile
couch
Member



Joined: 2003/10/29
Posts: 62
College Station, TX

 Re:

Ron,

Fascinating!

Would it then be proper to say that a national revival in physical Israel, where the Israeli people see and come unto a restored (spiritual) "altar" to the Lord is to come to pass, therefore providing the means and preparing the way for the King of Glory?

I don't want to make any assertions for you, but those were the thoughts that arrested me while I was reading your post.

Surely many of us are aware of the "John the Baptist Generation" understanding of the last days, where a nameless, faceless, broken people overtake the earth by the Spirit of Elijah to cry out in the wilderness "Prepare the way of the Lord!"

I know you and I both believe Israel has a major part to play, though others would disagree. Though I haven't considered to the depth that I believe you have here....

Any further thoughts on the issue of how the so-called "third" coming of Elijah relates to the salvation of Israel?


_________________
Ryan Couch

 2005/7/12 11:23Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

couch!
ouch!!
I wouldn't know where to start with your posting. :-? I have heard the chorus 'these are the days of etc' but other than that I have not met with the concepts you outline here, unless it is a variant of older ideas. I am usually very suspicious of end-time scenarios. I had better be silent until someone tells me where we are going with this. ;-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/7/12 11:46Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 literal or figurative??

I've heard people say that the two witnesses in REV. are types and not literal. To be honest


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D.Miller

 2005/7/12 15:40Profile
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re: literal or figurative??

Taking a historico-grammatical approach, I would have to say that according to the text they must be real people. But golly-gee I'm one of those silly dispensationalists :-D .


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2005/7/12 19:13Profile





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