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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Sound doctrine is it promoted in your churches ?

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narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1021
Germany NRW

 Re: Sound doctrine is it promoted in your churches ?


One of the greatest and most subtile deceptions is sound doctrine taught by the ingenuity of man that is not Spirit breathed, where the preacher parades his knowlegde and excels in rethoric.

Dead orthodoxy that is not wrought in the prayer closet, where there are no tears shed, no fragrance of bridal communion, no dew of Hermon that falls in the early morning hours. It brings no conviction to the hard hearted. It puffs up those that are headstrong.

Professors of religion and who teach what they think but they have not heard from the father.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

As it was the letter of law of Moses that killed, so it is New Testament doctrine taught as a system and a theory.

 2019/7/13 16:10Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1021
Germany NRW

 Re: Sound doctrine is it promoted in your churches ?


One of the greatest and most subtile deceptions is sound doctrine taught by the ingenuity of man that is not Spirit breathed, where the preacher parades his knowlegde and excels in rethoric.

Dead orthodoxy that is not wrought in the prayer closet, where there are no tears shed, no fragrance of bridal communion, no dew of Hermon that falls in the early morning hours. It brings no conviction to the hard hearted. It puffs up those that are headstrong.

Professors of religion and who teach what they think but they have not heard from the father.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

As it was the letter of law of Moses that killed, so it is New Testament doctrine taught as a system and a theory.

 2019/7/13 16:10Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5258
NC, USA

 Re:

I certainly agree NP.

Mike wrote:
“We do need sound doctrine. We need both the Word (the whole Word), and we need the Spirit.”

I certainly agree and you are spot on about the charismatics.

It always seems like it has to be one or the other. Why must that be?

The only place I have experienced authentic Christianity was with a group of brothers I used to pray with- the power in the room was electric because God was there but there was no silliness or weird manifestations. It was dead serious because God was there. And I experienced it one other time at a retreat for youth workers and the leader was playing clips from the old Fire on the Altar website. The entire agenda for the meeting was out the window because God stepped down. The whole room felt like an extremely heavy drapery was weighing us down and all we could do was weep and cry out to God.

There is nothing, and I mean nothing, that I desire more than to experience God’s presence like that again.


_________________
Todd

 2019/7/13 16:32Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1978
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

The word of God is spiritual. According to 1 Cor. 2, the natural man, meaning the human intellect and intelligence, cannot receive the things of the Spirit for they are foolishness to him, for they are spiritually discerned or understood. So, apart from the operation of the Holy Spirit, proper understanding of the word of God is not possible. In other words, sound doctrine is not possible apart from the Holy Spirit as He brings revelation of the written word to our hearts.

Sound doctrine is understanding and teaching that brings transformation to our lives, that shapes us into His image.


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Travis

 2019/7/13 21:48Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1978
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

I know of places where the doctrine is "sound" meaning that it seems from the outside to line up precept upon precept with the word of God. However the people in those places are filled with pride, bitterness, and have totally missed becoming like Christ. What they know might be sound in that it is not full of any kind of gross error. But what they believe is a best woefully incomplete because it is not conforming them to His image. They would argue that their doctrine is sound, but there is no fruit born out in their lives to back that statement up.

So I don't believe it is all about your particular interpretation of Chapter so and so verse such and such. It is about knowing a living God who by His Spirit and His Word is radically transforming your life so that you find yourself being transfigured from glory to glory into His image as by the Spirit of the Lord..


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Travis

 2019/7/13 21:53Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1783
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The reason is the Christian church does not suffer with a problem of a lack of good Christian doctrine

https://christianbookexpo.com/bestseller/all.php?id=0719
Christian books bestsellers

Christian megachurches
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_megachurches_in_the_United_States

I think the Holy Spirit is one of the most misused members of the trinity and having a correct understanding of the third person of the trinity


Everyone has a knowledge of god but whether that view is correct or even biblical that is the problem

Having a correct view of Jesus is important as anything else is idolatry that is why you need christology
Having a correct view of god is important that is why you need theology
And a correct view of the Holy Spirit

To me it seems you are more people who have itching ears as that’s what it states in the passage about people who go against sound doctrine

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Jhn 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Jhn 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Jhn 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

You are rather vague when you say some churches preach sound doctrine but are dead if they did they should not be

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

The opposite of those who do not preach doctrine is those that scratch itching ears and that is what is in abundance .
We have fables that run abound.

I know many ministers and don’t know many who would even pass the category of sound doctrine as it is a qualification of a pastor according to the bible

Tts 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Tts 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tts 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Tts 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Tts 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

This states that sound doctrine is a fundamental to a pastor

This is what I find fundamentally dangerous looking for experience over the word of God as you step into dangerous territory.
You end up like a drug addict in so many highs and lows if you seek experience over the word of god.

I went to university and anybody can do theology

I think it was Glenn beck that said that Mormonism saved him from alcoholism he was transformed but not under Christianity
There was an imam that said that the Quran saved him from drugs
Cults do miracles.


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Dominic Shiells

 2019/7/14 10:56Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 976


 Re: Sound doctrine is it promoted in your churches ?

* DOCTRINE,..
Would we think that this Word possibly could derive from the word *Doctor ?,....... How is it used in Scripture ?

We go to the Doctor in hopes to be made physically well ?
( that is, ...in the natural body)...

But NOW , Jesus’ with His *doctrine .. has come to make us *completely whole,..well,.. Spiritually.

What if a man is NOT preaching a *DOCTRINE, (like Jesus’ *DOCTRINE that makes one whole / well),that teaches us, ‘we are all sinners,and that we willl just keep on sinning,.. that Jesus a liar,... that He can’t make us perfect,.. (like He says),...”be ye perfect ,as I am perfect,..the One we are called to follow.

(Paul say he didn’t count himself as having yet apprehended it, but was going after *THE HIGH CALLING of God in Christ Jesus.)we are called unto a high calling.
We have been called into a Spiritual kingdom, where The King is Lord.

Do we just put new wine into old bottles?,.... the bottle won’t make it, .. it will just break, and be of no use at all.

Mt.9:12, Jesus said,..
“They that be *whole need not a physician, but *they that are sick.”

Mk.2:17,.. Jesus said,..
“They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Mt.16:6,
“Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Jesus was discussing bread,... True bread and unleavened bread,..

Lk.12:2,
“ Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is *hypocrisy.”

Leaven, ... something that makes bread *rise.

Note: they try to put leaven into the bread they are eating and trying to feed others,.. but their leaven is dead,.. so they try to make it rise w/ man-made
Ingredients.

*Jesus, is the *resurrection, [rise] of The Bread that He gives us.


Mt.16:11-12,
“ How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

12 “Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of *the DOCTRINE of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”

Mk.12:38-40,
Ҧ And he said unto them *in his DOCTRINE, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:

40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.”

Acts 2:42,
“And they continued stedfastly in *the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in *breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Rom.8:16-18,
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, *but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of *DOCTRINE which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”

1Tim.6:3,
“¶ If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to *the DOCTRINE, which is according to godliness;”

1Tim.4:16,
“ Take heed unto thyself, and unto *the DOCTRINE ; continue in them: for in doing this *thou shalt both *save thyself, and them that hear thee.”

Notice the contrast in the next two Scriptures,....

2Jn1:9-10,
Ҧ Whosoever transgresseth, and *abideth not in the *The DOCTRINE of Christ, *hath NOT God. He that *abideth IN the *DOCTINE of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and *bring NOT *this DOCTRINE, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
~~~~~~~~
Rev.2:14-15,
“But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold *the doctrine *of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

15 So hast thou also them that hold *the DOCTRINE of *the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.”
~~~~~~~~~~
So now,.. Is the preaching like Christ’ DOCTRINE,...a doctrine to make us whole,... ?,.. or just stay sick ?
~~~~~~~~~~~
He is our plumb line-
~~~~~~~~~~~
study,.. ‘What is the doctrine of :
* the doctrine of the Pharisees and the Sadusees
*the doctrine of Balaam
*the doctrine of the Nicolaitans
???
~~~~~~~~~~~
elizabeth

 2019/7/15 16:05Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1783
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

This was about sound doctrine and not doctrine this is off topic

If we are looking at definitions let’s look at the Greek and not cherry 🍒 pick verses
When we look at verses Elizabeth you never start with the English

G1322 διδαχή
Pronounced did-akh-ay'

from 1321; instruction (the act or the matter):--doctrine, hath been taught.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1322.htm

G1319 διδασκαλία
Pronounced did-as-kal-ee'-ah

from 1320; instruction (the function or the information):--doctrine, learning, teaching.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1319.htm

G2085 ἑτεροδιδασκαλέω
Pronounced het-er-od-id-as-kal-eh'-o
https://biblehub.com/str/greek/2085.htm
from 2087 and 1320; to instruct differently:--teach other doctrine(-wise).

G3056 λόγος
Pronounced log'-os

https://biblehub.com/str/greek/3056.htm

from 3004; something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (i.e. Christ):--account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say(-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.

Just to assert that there is bad doctrine does not make that there is the premise that there is good doctrine

At Pentecost it states that they continued firmly in the apostles doctrine

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Jesus himself is called the word of god λόγος as I am advocating for sound doctrine as this is the title of this thread

I cannot do justice to all the greek words here in there context as we live in a YouTube generation who have an attention span of 2 seconds

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If we want to state that doctrine is bad we can quote 1 Timothy stating that in the latter times people will be given to doctrines of demons
The Greek is διδασκαλία which means teaching


Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope

The same word is used for learning in Romans 8

What do people have against scripture today as god gave us a book we should know that book 📚

What is so dangerous is that we put experience above the word of god we end up in Christian Gnosticsim
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
which is esoteric knowledge and can be swayed by every wind of doctrine

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

The other heresy we can full into is Montanism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montanism
relied on prophetic revelations from the Holy Spirit.

Montanism put prophetic revelations above scripture


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Dominic Shiells

 2019/7/15 17:20Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5258
NC, USA

 Re:

True or False:

A church can espouse perfectly sound doctrine and still be dead as a door nail.

Explain your answer.


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Todd

 2019/7/15 18:00Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 976


 Re:

Dominic,
I did not write to offend,...that is not my heart.
I thought you were wanting to be able to recognize sound doctrine vs unsound doctrine,in the one that we hear preach or speaking,....yes?

~~~~~~~~

That was my emphasis,....the words that come out of one’s mouth,.. do they line up with Jesus’ teachings / doctrine?..... how He used them.

~~~~~~~~~
elizabeth

 2019/7/15 18:10Profile





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