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 Forgiveness... your thoughts

My wife and I recently had someone take advantage of us, lie to us, break our trust, and the husband in the situation verbally abused my wife.... over the phone. (He wasn't man enough to do it in my presence... I'm not beyond hurting someone who treats my wife in such a manner, and I am well trained to do so)

Anyway, his wife was involved in all this too.

Well, things kinda blew over, and we forgave them in our hearts... and just moved on and put it behind us. It's been a few months, and finally they contacted us and asked for forgiveness. We of course extended forgiveness but informed them that the friendship we had before could not be the same... at least not right now. Our trust had been broken, and I don't want this man around my family.

I got a scathing email from this dude informing me that I need to get right with God because forgiveness means that we forget and carry on as tho nothing ever happened. I shouldn't hold them at arm length, and by doing so I am demonstrating that I havent forgiven them

My opinion is that if I get bit by a dog once, it's the dog's fault... if I get bit by the same dog a second time, it's my fault.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Krispy

 2005/7/11 14:20
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Forgiveness... your thoughts

[QUOTE] He wasn't man enough to do it in my presence... I'm not beyond hurting someone who treats my wife in such a manner, and I am well trained to do so




I enjoy the story of the apostle Peter who watched as his wife was being martyred and said to her I'll see you in heaven. I think there's nothing in this life worth keeping me from "Our Father's forgiveness", no matter what. I speak as one who has been through the fire in this respect, as well as my wife of 18yrs. Forgiveness is instant, but if you see this individual as a christian brother you need to call him into accountability and follow the steps Jesus taught on with one or two witnesses. You know the passage. But if he's not a saved person,?.."sinner can't do nothing but sin". In the area of restitution, genuine repentance will being real restitution, unless he's in a situation where monetary restitution is imposible, then if he explains to you and your wife the full situation, you have an obligation to forgive and restore the friendship or at least ask God to bring about restoration and remove all bitterness and suspection of a future mishap-sin-ect....In the church we lack in the area of christian ethical teachings and that's why there's so much confusion in the relationships we form in our local churches. Rember Jesus short circuted alot in His teaching in the area of us lending to one another. He said to give and not expect it in return.

I might make a suggestion that you take your "red letter edition" of the bible and just read through the red letter portion of the gospels ----Matt-Mark- Luke- John, just a one or two sitting causual reading, prehaps with your wife and just let the Lord speak to you in His own word out of His Word.


_________________
D.Miller

 2005/7/11 15:19Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re: Forgiveness... your thoughts

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
I got a scathing email from this dude informing me that I need to get right with God because forgiveness means that we forget and carry on as tho nothing ever happened. I shouldn't hold them at arm length, and by doing so I am demonstrating that I havent forgiven them
Krispy



Yea, you might have to forgive them but I still haven't found in my Bible were it say's you have to hang out with them. :-)


forgiveness means that we forget and carry on as tho nothing ever happened.

Yea, let me know when you find out how to forget like nothing happened without some sort or meds. or Brain damage. :-?


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Mr. Bill

 2005/7/11 15:30Profile









 Re:

Let me point out... both are Christians.

One thing that makes me suspect is that when asking for forgiveness it would seem to me there would be a little more humility than to inform the person you're asking forgiveness from that they are not forgiving you correctly... know what I mean? That just strikes me wierd.

I've forgiven them anyway, just not ready to trust them. You have to earn trust.

Krispy

 2005/7/11 16:13









 Re:

"I'm not beyond hurting someone who treats my wife in such a manner, and I am well trained to do so."

Krispy, I hear you, except you are working out of anger and not love. I too am "well trained to do so", but the pacifist example of Jesus rules me and so it is never an option. Preventing violence is our duty and sometimes this may take some level of restraining physical force to prevent a greater harm. (Like taking someone down who enters your house with bad intent.) But in this incidence it sounds like your wife was not physically threatened, just seriously insulted and betrayed. You were justifiably angry, on the human level. But I think we are being called to a higher one.

As for forgiving them, you are right and it sounds like they are being judgemental of you. Simply say, "time heals, and we need some now. Can we sort this out later when WE are ready as well as you."

Bubbaguy

 2005/7/11 16:15
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Have you ever thought about the sense of 'forgiving sins'. Isn't it the sinner who needs forgiveness rathet than the sins? The word for 'forgiveness' here is actually 'aphesis' which really means to send something away. 'remission of sins' and 'forgivenenss of the sinner' is the real sense of all this. In this sense 'forgiving sins' means to send them away from you. It is the image of the scapegoat.

Another word is 'be gracious' which is the word used in Col. 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. We are to 'gracious' - as Christ. You may recall that the best the prodigal thought he could hope for was 'forgiveness' and a place in the servants' quarters. But the Father had a different view of things. This was no 'arms length' forgiveness.

I recall hearing a story of a preacher who returned to visit a church after and interval of a year or so. He met an old lady at the door and began to talk to her about the things he had heard during his last visit.
"Are you alright?" he asked "I know you had gone through a difficult time when I was last here".
"I'm fine" said the old lady.
"and are you alright in yourself" he asked "I remember that some folks in the church had been very unkind to you".
"No, I don't remember that" said the old lady.
"But you must" said the preacher "I remember you telling me".
"No" said the old lady "I don't remember and I remember the day I decided not to remember".

There is a difference between 'not remembering' and 'forgetting'. God has not said He will forget our sins but that He will not remember them. This is even better than forgetting, because if I forget someone might remind me, but if I refuse to remember they can't remind me however hard they try. Did you notice how hard the other brother tried to remind the Father of the behaviour of the younger son? and the Father's reaction?

Biblically, forgiveness is always with reconciliation in view. To say 'I will forgive but I can't forget' may be absolutely true i human terms, but we are no longer 'only human' and we may become partakers of the nature of Him for whom it is also possible to 'forgive and to refuse to remember'.

this is not a put-down for the original post, but an encouragement to seek God for the necessary grace to behave as He would. He never did say this would be easy; in fact, He said it would cost us our lives. How are we to understand 'forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us'? Do we really want God to forgive us at 'arms length'?

“And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.”
(Luke 15:20-24, KJVS)


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Ron Bailey

 2005/7/11 16:21Profile
TonyS
Member



Joined: 2005/1/29
Posts: 154
Kansas City, Missouri

 Re:

As many others have, I’ve read entire books on forgiveness but these few short paragraphs by Ron have been more of an encouragement than any work I have read and brings much into sharp focus of what Christ desires in and through us.

Thank You Philologos,
tonys


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Tony Sexton

 2005/7/11 16:32Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Krispy, I hear you, except you are working out of anger and not love. I too am "well trained to do so", but the pacifist example of Jesus rules me and so it is never an option. Preventing violence is our duty and sometimes this may take some level of restraining physical force to prevent a greater harm. (Like taking someone down who enters your house with bad intent.) But in this incidence it sounds like your wife was not physically threatened, just seriously insulted and betrayed. You were justifiably angry, on the human level. But I think we are being called to a higher one.



Really the point I was making is that his threats were over the phone, and they would not have been made to her face if I was present... because he wouldnt dare to. Not sure if that really is a relevent point except to say that thhe threats and verbal abuse occurred... and it wasnt something that I would have allowed.

Krispy

 2005/7/11 17:00









 Re:

Philologos... as someone who I deeply respect on here I wish to take my time absorbing what you wrote and understand it completely. Skimming over the post, I can say that you're probably on the right track. I'll get back to this later... gotta run for now...

Krispy

 2005/7/11 17:03
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

I agree with TonyS's response to what Philo has shared with us on this subject.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2005/7/11 17:23Profile





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