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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Dead in HIM

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Onesimus4God
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Joined: 2006/1/16
Posts: 192
Ajijic, Jalisco, Mexico

 Dead in HIM

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

CRUCIFIED - DEAD To be crucified (past tense) one must be declared 100% dead.

Flesh, affections, lusts, DEAD. They that "are CHRIST's, are 100% DEAD with HIM. It is impossible to immerse yourself into HIS life, and yet not be 100% dead to your own life and will.

One can only conclude, as I understand it then, that only those who have done this, are immersed (baptized) into HIS life. The others, are imposters. They say they are "believers" yet their will is yet their "god". Or shall we say "gods". All the passions that deviate from searching out, knowing HIS will, and willing to die to obey HIM, reveal apostasy. Falling away from the TRUTH.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

In as much as you are dead to self, you are alive in HIM, with all the benefits of the inheritance lavished upon you. But if what you want, trumps what HE wants, you just may not be born again...yet.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The revelation of this vs 20 here, changed my life. NO LONGER I WHO LIVES. I must DIE FIRST, for HIM to live within me. HE does not come to live with me. HE comes to live instead of me. I DIE. HE LIVES.

All SIN and disobedience is proof that YOU/I STILL LIVE IN THE FLESH. Self will, instead of HIS WILL. HE CANNOT and WILL NOT ACCEPT THAT! You offer yourself as a living sacrifice, dead yet alive, or you have no access to GRACE. Selah.


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Lahry Sibley

 2019/6/21 22:25Profile
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1154
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Dead in HIM

AMEN!!!
This is the cardinal truth of our faith and my prayer is that the Lords word would rouse His children, awakening them from their slumber and raising their voices as one - shining like stars in the universe as they hold out the words of life to a depraved and crooked generation 🙏🏻

May we examine ourselves (by this scripture Gal 5:24) to be sure we are in THE faith-
The faith that was once delivered and which we received and wherein IF we stand we should not be ashamed but shall rejoice and say Holy Holy is the Lamb of God who takes AWAY the sin of the world that we (His children) may no longer live therein 🙏🏻


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Fletcher

 2019/6/22 11:31Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5241
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 Re:

Was the Paul in Romans 7 saved, yet?


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Todd

 2019/6/22 16:16Profile
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 Re: brother Todd

You asked if Paul was “saved” in Romans 7...
while the context for your question is clear, may you be more specific regarding the term saved as you are using it here?

People often use that term to mean something other than what the scriptures state, in fact it has become increasingly vague and ambiguous much like the term Christianity/Christian in that when someone uses it as an identifier it’s not clear what idea or position they intend to convey - so that you for clarifying and helping me to understand what you are asking.


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Fletcher

 2019/6/24 7:58Profile
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 Re:

Sure Fletcher-

The context was this statement in the OP:
/But if what you want, trumps what HE wants, you just may not be born again...yet./

Technically I should have asked was Paul born again... yet?


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Todd

 2019/6/24 8:27Profile
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 Re:

Ahhhh that helps!

From a straight reading of that chapter culminating with Paul crying;

“O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”

The straight answer would be, no-
At least not until which point he realized that he (himself) was the problem and sought to be delivered...

Interestingly from a syntactical standpoint, just the contrast between chapter 7 to 8, regarding the number of times “I “ is employed reveals that something significant took place after the 24th vs of chapter 7 whereby the writer himself is no longer the focus but rather the truth of what God has accomplished for us through Christ Jesus and just how He provided for us, He expects us to actively participate in that we are being led not by our flesh (ie;being our own God, making decisions based on the knowledge of good and evil) but by the Spirit of God,... the degree to which we see our need of Him and submit to His will (denying our will/flesh) is the degree to which we are being “saved” which is why in scripture it (salvation unto eternal life) is referred to as a “hope”...

In being totally honest with you,.. I believe “salvation” to be far far more difficult and costly than any of us (in the western world) would even begin to imagine,...
So it seems we (different denominations) have picked our favorite
“-tions” (reformatTION, justificaTION, regeneraTION, sanctificaTION, consercraTION, etc...) and reduced salvation to nearly fit inside just one of these in an easily (to swallow) quantifiable way, a formula if you will... but this is not the testimony of scripture.

And if the Exodus doesn’t paint an eye opening picture of Gods requirements of us then what else is there??
Here we have a clear picture of people being “saved”- “delivered” - “set free”- “kept”- “covered”- “led” etc... etc... and yet out of the many (possibly 2 million) that were “saved” only 2 from that generation entered the promised land, with the rest being destroyed by God because of their unbelief and this being referenced in the New Covenant as an example to us lest we fall by the same patterns 😳 errrr ummm hello!??
Now God was plenty patient and they were clearly given grace in that they had the cloud of mist, the column of fire, mana from heaven, water from rock,.... and yet just like them we want to turn back to our flesh/the world to seek its provisions and we think we are safe for destruction because of grace?!!! 🥺 that for some reason, even tho the whole testimony of scripture... including the words of our Lord Himself telling us “few there be that enter” so to “strive to enter the straight gate”... says otherwise, that we are somehow gonna get to live all friendly with the declared enemy of our Lord (world/flesh) and still get the golden ticket 😰... I can’t imagine a more clear depiction of deception and so the scriptures saith “except ye repent, ye shall likewise perish” -



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Fletcher

 2019/6/24 10:15Profile
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 Re:

I believe Saul/Paul was born again the second he said “Who are you, Lord?” in Acts 9:5. The moment he recognized Jesus as Lord and had every intention of being a bond-servant of Christ.

Paul’s admits to a struggle with the flesh in Rom 7, as all believers do. But he was still born again in the midst of the struggle. We are not saved by works nor are we kept saved by works. Nothing could be clearer in the NT than that fact. True faith will produce works without doubt but this is not a “chicken or the egg” type dilemma. Faith comes first and works flow from faith.


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Todd

 2019/6/24 10:29Profile
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 Re: Hmmm 🧐

Please help me to understand... are you saying that the Romans 7 “experience” was not a current one but was the writer referring to a time when he was born again?
Or are you suggesting that the Romans 7 “experience” was just another everyday average struggle with the flesh that all believers must endure?


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Fletcher

 2019/6/24 10:43Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1699


 Re:

I have heard lot of explanation on Romans 7 and 8, none have been logically and spiritually balanced compared to Zac Poonen's teaching on this subject. Romans 7 is a life where Paul after being born again lived as a legalist. We have all experienced this phase in our Christian life in which we instead of living by Spirit, live by law. Romans is a progressive book. In romans 6 itself Paul is done with Justification, Romans 7 is living by Law instead of Spirit. Romans 8 is death to law and alive in Spirit.

I would suggest everyone to Listen to Zac Poonen's verse by verse study of Romans 7 and 8. They are wonderful, I am sure most believers have got wrong understanding of Romans 7 and 8.

https://cfcindia.com/verse-by-verse/Romans


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Sreeram

 2019/6/24 11:08Profile
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 Re:

Fletcher-

I do believe that true believers experience struggles with the flesh. Dying to self means not giving in to those struggles. The fact that there is a struggle does not mean the person is not born again. But now they NOTICE the struggle, because they are born again, and desire to overcome.

Yes, I believe it is an everyday struggle. Just my honest opinion.


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Todd

 2019/6/24 11:17Profile





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