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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Can one who commits suicide be saved?

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5292
NC, USA

 Re:

Gt768-

I ain’t no Calvinist.

I don’t see how what you have written differs one whit from what I wrote.

When I say a holy life is a symptom of true faith it means that someone who has true faith will live a holy life or at least strive to do so.

When I say living a holy life is not a prescription for salvation I mean it does not result in salvation. Eph 2:8-9.

But immediately after true salvation there is a desire to obey the King.

One is not saved by 80% obedience—nor by 100% obedience (which actually is possible over short periods, by the way). One is saved by having genuinely embraced the King and the life that logically follows from having such a King. None obeys completely, but we are commanded to do so, and true disciples have every intention of doing so. Failure to obey completely is a breach of the King's law, but it is not, in itself, damning. To inadvertently violate the speed limit is not to renounce your citizenship. Likewise, a child is not disowned by his parents because he forgets to do a particular assigned chore. There is grace in this Kingdom for those whose disobedience springs from weakness, ignorance or temporary insanity (James 3:2), and not from rebellion (Matt.26:41).


_________________
Todd

 2019/6/19 11:38Profile
gt768
Member



Joined: 2019/6/12
Posts: 37


 Re: TMK

TMK, Thank you for clarifying. No, trying to live a holy life without turning to God through Christ by faith will not result in salvation. But that wouldn't really be a holy life.

I didn't say you were a Calvinist, only that what you said sounded Calvinistic. You wrote in your last post "But immediately after true salvation there is a desire to obey the King."

That statement also sounds Calvinistic. Calvinists teach that people get regenerated and then desire to live holy while the Scriptures teach one repents before their new birth. If I renounce my rebellion to the King, since in doing so I acknowledge His holiness and His will to lead me into holiness, then my desire to obey the King had to be there before He accepted me. But maybe that's what you meant.

I totally agree with the longer paragraph which you wrote. Jesus is the High Priest who must continually keep the record of His disciples clean through His Priesthood and there is such thing as a sin that leads not to death. What you said here is true and very important:

"To inadvertently violate the speed limit is not to renounce your citizenship. Likewise, a child is not disowned by his parents because he forgets to do a particular assigned chore. There is grace in this Kingdom for those whose disobedience springs from weakness, ignorance or temporary insanity (James 3:2), and not from rebellion (Matt.26:41)"

My contention in this thread has been that suicide could not fall into this category unless someone were truly temporarily insane and couldn't even comprehend what they were doing at all- it is by its very nature an act of rebellion.

Thank you for being willing to reason.

 2019/6/19 12:48Profile
profitadune
Member



Joined: 2019/6/13
Posts: 20


 Re:

It sounds like being a Calvinist can make one un-welcomed here on this forum?

 2019/6/19 14:44Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3206
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
profitadune It sounds like being a Calvinist can make one un-welcomed here on this forum?



Sometimes I wonder if common sense, wisdom and grace are still welcomed here. No doubt theologians are, which is great if you have a 140 -170 IQ. I cherish the word of God and all the scriptures, but I don't understand them all, so some simple from the heart and wisdom explanations would be a great help. Laying out 50 scriptures, to prove your point, really just confuses me, may as well just post a link.
Carry on Solders.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/6/19 15:10Profile
profitadune
Member



Joined: 2019/6/13
Posts: 20


 Re:

MrBillPro, I refuse to treat anyone without grace. Since I am not an intellectual all I can bring to the table is my understanding of the Word, and hopefully a simple way to relating it to others. Having said that, yes my leanings are definitely toward the Reformed side of theology. I have seen during my brief time here, and before I signed up, that many here do not share my thoughts on that matter. Me? I just read the Bible and there it is. Most of the Bible is really not that hard to understand if we dont over think it.

 2019/6/19 15:25Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3206
Texas

 Re: profitadune

As for truth of our understanding of scripture, I do question, in prayer, the truthfulness of what I believe to be true. In doing so, I have so far never been steered wrong in my understanding of what is true and what may not be true and what is flat out not true. Maybe in doing so I gain divine knowledge through the Holy Spirit and maybe by doing so I just hash it out in my head and come up with the best answer, who can say for certain? Either way, the process works.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/6/19 16:53Profile
profitadune
Member



Joined: 2019/6/13
Posts: 20


 Re:

The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth, just not all at one time. (We probably could not handle it all at one time!) We should always approach scripture with a prayerful and teachable attitude. Good word, brother.

 2019/6/19 17:04Profile
SteveHale
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 189
NSW Australia

 Re:

profitadune wrote

Quote:
Some in that state actually do commit suicide, and sometimes assisted suicide. Are we to say that they “lost” their salvation because of that?
Quote:




I do not know how much lower we can go. It makes me wonder if those that are saying suicide or assisted suicide/murder is ok, or those saying amen to such. Are they naive? Or is there something more sinister and dark behind it?


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Steve

 2019/6/19 19:31Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5292
NC, USA

 Re:

Profitadune-

There are calvinists and non calvinists here. We never see eye to eye on certain topics which is to be expected. Folks from both sides are welcome.

Steve- I have not seen anyone here say “amen” to suicide or who has said its “ok.”


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Todd

 2019/6/19 19:46Profile
SteveHale
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 189
NSW Australia

 Re:

TMK wrote

Quote:
Steve- I have not seen anyone here say “amen” to suicide or who has said its “ok.”
Quote:


By saying that God will overlook the act is implying it is ok.

To anyone reading this thread and have had, or are having thoughts of taking their own life. I say do not do such a thing! There is no repentance after the act! The place you will find yourself in will be for ever and ever and ever!

Blessings Steve


_________________
Steve

 2019/6/19 20:10Profile





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