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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Can one who commits suicide be saved?

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JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1154
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: GT768

Your presentation of the gospel and the requirements/conditions of salvation unto eternal life is very much the same (99%) as my understanding,... when read honestly- that plainly is what is taught in the scriptures apart from any man made doctrines or denominational preferences, confessions or creeds.

It is refreshing to read your sober minded, forthright and unashamed stance upholding the truth as unchangeable and very much understandable.
Likewise the reality presented by the testimony of scripture seems hard, steep, daunting and unwavering in its preservation of the truth and on this account I commend you for being bold in response to this question/thread as all too often we capitulate or remain silent. This it seems to be because we believe the truth will be too much for people to handle so we attempt to change it in an effort to appease the flesh, while this may be with good intentions it can only bring misery as it is a lie cloaked as truth and acts as a yeast of sorts leavening every subsequent lump it’s received into.

Many (most) times a client that has exhibited a tendency to excuse or even justify sin, will almost subconsciously refer to a tragedy involving a loved one, where they just couldn’t bear the thought that their loved one died apart from Christ in their sins and went to hell so they found someone who would lie to them and they cling to the lie. The lie then acts like a seed and begins to reproduce after its own kind,... slowly corrupting and if not stopped, eventually taking over the persons faith itself as they become more and more tolerant of sin as it becomes a more familiar feature of the internal landscape of their minds... At first it (the lie) has to have a painful tragedy that is too hurtful to really look at honestly to hide behind, using it as a camouflage so to speak... but after it gets protected and even defended it grows unchecked until it no longer needs the tragedy to camouflage itself because now it has become a residential feature and it (the lie) literally fits in to its environment, having been cultivated by its host-

It’s in many ways a greater tragedy than the one that birthed the occasion as it’s usually a far slower and less noticeable affair and since the host themselves identify as a “Christian” this “doctrine” gets spread like a yeast in the body of Christ and the only thing that will stop it is the truth 🙏🏻

Realizing I’ve rambled here,... I do have a question for you- hoping to find out just how far you parse this out in scripture,...
If someone enters into a situation knowing they will almost assuredly be killed as a result (possibly even be looking forward to it) would that, in your view, be considered a suicide of sorts if it were completely avoidable?
ie: Paul going back to Rome in spite of being warned by the prophet


_________________
Fletcher

 2019/6/15 21:31Profile
gt768
Member



Joined: 2019/6/12
Posts: 37


 Re:

Fletcher, If your question was addressed to me I think it's clear from Acts that Paul was seeking to be faithful to the Lord in going to Jerusalem and not seeking death as an end. The Lord comforted him and promised he would get to Rome to testify of him there as he did at Jerusalem (Acts 23:11). The Lord didn't reprove him because he had work to do there despite the danger he knew he was exposing himself to. There are times where we definitely need to risk death to do God's will- protecting someone who is about to get assaulted or already being assaulted is one example. That's a universe of difference from someone jumping in water they know is infested with alligators in the hopes they'll kill him. I trust in God's mercy if it's a situation that's not so obvious- provided I'm already being faithful to the things which I surely ought to know. Makes me think of Acts 24:16 "And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men."

 2019/6/15 22:46Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1154
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: gt768

Quote “That's a universe of difference”

Yes! Indeed it is:)
Thank you for your response- it serves to better understand your perspective.

while reading how you had presented your view of Jesus my heart jumped in my chest as if to stand in applause recognizing the truth in your declaration of dependence on Him:)



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Fletcher

 2019/6/16 6:43Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1699


 Re:

I read this article immediately after it was posted. I agree with brothers who said this article is heavily based on Calvinism. The concept of interpreting a simple scripture in the eyes of Calvinism and there by adding more to the scripture than what it actually emphasis, is very unimpressive. I have read books of Calvinists even though I do not agree with their doctrine. Those books mostly talk about their devotion to Christ. Even though I believe they are doctrinally wrong, I sense their Revelation of Christ. But sadly in this article I only sense doctrine. This article can be read and appreciated only by those who agree with his doctrine.

Regarding those who commit suicide. The case should be examined like how we examine Divorced and remarried people. Jesus plainly said divorce and remarried people live in adultery. So it is a lifestyle of sin without any salvation from Sin. But one has to examine when the divorce happened, if it was before they came to Christ or whose fault the divorce was etc. Same way suicide is also a sinful act of unbelief, but there are other factors like mental state of the person etc. Only very spiritual people can fight metal conditions like depression and still be victorious.

That is why it is very important to seek the Lord to become spiritually matured when your mental strength is high, there are times when with age a person will start losing control over their mind. Only those who trained their mind at young age to take control of it, can remain spiritual at later ages.


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Sreeram

 2019/6/16 9:18Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1934


 Re: Whether Christians who commit suicide go to heaven


For those who pull out the calvinist-card

Non-calvinists answer the question;

https://churchleaders.com/youth/youth-leaders-videos/278494-suicide.html

https://youtu.be/F-o4PpCkjV4

 2019/6/16 9:32Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1154
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: mind of Christ- sound mind

So are some of us suggesting that a brother or sister can, after having received the “mind of Christ”, at some point become mentally ill and still be somehow in communion with the Lord so as to abide in Christ?

This concept seems foreign to my understanding of scripture but perhaps I have overlooked something... is there a particular passage in scripture that provides a basis for such a position?


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Fletcher

 2019/6/16 10:14Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5241
NC, USA

 Re:

Fletcher is it your understanding that a Christian cannot suffer from mental illness (schizophrenia, depression, etc?). We know they can suffer from physical illness so I just want to see if you make a distinction.


_________________
Todd

 2019/6/16 10:46Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1934


 Re: somehow in communion...



Fletcher,

Q. Has a brother or sister, after having received the “mind of Christ”, at some point come down with dementia/alzheimers?

Is there a particular passage in scripture that provides a basis for such a position?

 2019/6/16 10:54Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3187
Texas

 Re:

We’re all are entitled to our own beliefs or opinions of what scripture says. My belief or opinion is this, and no ones opinions or beliefs would ever change my mind on this subject. Anyone that doesn’t think that a person in Christ can’t become so depressed or so mentally ill enough to take their own life, well you’ve lost all credibility with me, so preach that message to someone else. Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that the act of suicide, no matter how tragic, is an unforgivable sin. If you are a believer in Christ, you will go to Heaven. The Bible is clear that the ONLY sin which cannot be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and the refusal to believe in Christ.

“But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, he is guilty of an eternal sin.” (Mark 3:29)

“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:16)


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2019/6/16 11:40Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1154
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brothers Todd, Savannah & Bill

It doesn’t really matter what I say/think, what matters is the testimony of scripture- and...
No I cannot find any scripture to support that theory (mental illness) rather they declare quite the opposite... sound mind, sobriety, etc... which is why I asked if there were any scriptures that you are aware of that perhaps I might have overlooked regarding this subject.

As far as physical illness is concerned, the scriptures do make a small distinction in that a person keeping step with the spirit can be physically injured or killed (in some cases) tho not so much when referring to a terminal illness, or a chronic disorder of any kind.
In those instances, possibly the individual has not matured (still sowing and reaping into the flesh) or has areas where God is not allowed to be Lord in that they have not given Him control? But are there any instances in scripture where a fully matured son or daughter was overcome by illness?That seems the antithesis of salvation, no?

Perhaps the better way to say it is this... to my knowledge there are no instances in scripture where we have an obedient christian who falls into a chronic much less terminal illness of any kind.

The scriptures tell me to use Gods word to inform my experience in this world and not the other way round, as such my reliance is upon the testimony of scripture. To believe in God as He is revealed in scripture and not to fabricate one based on my experience or preference.
Having said this,.... I have a question for you both-
Do you not believe that the God of the Bible,...the King of creation, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the one who created every star,...every planet,...every galaxy.... telling the mountains to come this high and go no further, telling the ocean to come this far and stop- and they all obey Him...the one whom knows every sparrow that falls from the sky... the God that fearfully made you in your mothers womb, the same one who raised Christ Jesus from the dead .... is capable of keeping those whom obey Him? Honestly think about who we are talking about here and the plain testimony of scripture is that He not only can but does, full stop-

With all due respect, if we are being totally honest most of our lives (post conversion) will stand as a testimony more against us than for us....
Again being totally honest, how many “believers” are spending more time growing in Christ (and more importantly allowing Christ to be formed in them) than they are attempting to advance their position in this world?
Wether thru political, financial, social, political, familial, or even physical development we are (in my understanding) deceived into believing that we can be ambitious for the things of this world and somehow still be a “Christian” tho if we are using the biblical definition of Christian (obedient children) and not the world’s definition (identify as a) then most and I do mean 90%+ of every “Christian” I’ve ever met falls far short of what the scriptures decidedly declare to be the requirement. (narrow path-straight gate)

So yes if a person is being led by the spirit of God, there doesn’t seem to be much of a chance that individual will develop a chronic illness, much less a terminal one and that’s not to mention taking their own life...

Again if I’m missing something in scripture , please by all means help me to understand🙏🏻






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Fletcher

 2019/6/16 21:20Profile





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