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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Can one who commits suicide be saved?

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savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1934


 Can one who commits suicide be saved?





Can one who commits suicide be saved?

Exodus 20:13; Acts 24:15; Romans 5:2–5; 2 Corinthians 1:10

Suicide is a grave sin equivalent to murder (Exodus 20:13; 21:23), but it can be forgiven like any other sin. And Scripture says clearly that those redeemed by God have been forgiven for all their sins--past, present, and future (Colossians 2:13-14). Paul says in Romans 8:38-39 that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

So if a true Christian would commit suicide in a time of extreme weakness, he or she would be received into heaven (Jude 24). But we question the faith of those who take their lives or even consider it seriously--it may well be that they have never been truly saved.

That's because God's children are defined repeatedly in Scripture as those who have hope (Acts 24:15; Romans 5:2-5, 8:24; 2 Corinthians 1:10, etc.) and purpose in life (Luke 9:23-25; Romans 8:28; Colossians 1:29). And those who think of committing suicide do so because they have neither hope nor purpose in their lives.

Furthermore, one who repeatedly considers suicide is practicing sin in his heart (Proverbs 23:7), and 1 John 3:9 says that "no one who is born of God practices sin." And finally, suicide is often the ultimate evidence of a heart that rejects the lordship of Jesus Christ, because it is an act where the sinner is taking his life into his own hands completely rather than submitting to God's will for it. Surely many of those who have taken their lives will hear those horrifying words from the Lord Jesus at the judgment--"I never knew you; Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness" (Matthew 7:23).

So though it may be possible for a true believer to commit suicide, we believe that is an unusual occurrence. Someone considering suicide should be challenged above all to examine himself to see whether he is in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5).

by John MacArthur

 2019/6/14 13:24Profile
gt768
Member



Joined: 2019/6/12
Posts: 37


 Re: Can one who commits suicide be saved?

In other words, if a Christian does it is, it is okay and will be forgiven. But if anyone else even considers it, they are lost and will be punished for it. Typical Calvinist OSAS perseverance lies.

What God's Word rightly divided actually teaches.
Ezekiel 18:23-32
"23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal? 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

 2019/6/14 18:32Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5241
NC, USA

 Re:

I don’t see it as a Calvinist OSAS issue.

The only issue on the table is whether a person who commits suicide is saved when they do it. Some are, some are not.

Suicide is a sin, like a multitude of other sins. How often has a true Christian committed some sin, then a few seconds later dies or is killed in some accident.

Everything MacArthur says sounds good but perhaps he has not experienced the depths of despair or mental instability that lead some to suicide.


_________________
Todd

 2019/6/14 18:57Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3187
Texas

 Re:

This is a very personal thread for me, and I've always just stood on these two scriptures, to help me keep moving forward.

"If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" (Romans 10:9).

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

I might add, until you have been in a persons shoes that has lost a love one to suicide, they need all the hope they can get, rather in scripture or in love from their fellow believers. With my limited mind, I would find it awful hard to believe anyone would kill themselves, unless they were sickly depressed, or had some mental issues. Would a loving God not welcome his child into his arms after knowing they were not thinking right, or even capable of thinking right? I hope the God I serve would, if not, I'm serving the wrong God.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2019/6/14 20:08Profile
gt768
Member



Joined: 2019/6/12
Posts: 37


 Re:

The original article says that suicide is a sin equal to murder (I agree). It then goes on to quote (out of context) Colossians 2:13-14 and Romans 8:38-39 to assert that even suicide can't separate one redeemed by God from His love. This is an OSAS issue I there ever was one. The article then cites Jude 24(totally inappropriately if you actually read Jude 24 in context) to say that that if a Christian commits suicide in a moment of weakness they will be received into heaven. I then ask: How many who have committed suicide do so in a moment of strength? Mcarthur has indeed just said "ye shall not surely die" for committing a sin that he acknowledges is equal to murder. Mcarthur then says "But we question the faith of those who take their lives or even consider it seriously--it may well be that they have never been truly saved." This is his Calvinistic perseverance showing itself- to him you either got saved before and nothing you can do can reverse that- or you never really did and never really had a chance to at all. The Scriptures teach on the other hand the need to exercise a living faith that obeys and worships God in the present (Romans 1:16-17 Hebrews chapters 3-4, Hebrews 5:9, etc). Ezekiel 18:23-32 deals with this and proves that being in God's favor is not about whether you were ever "saved" before- it is whether you'll reject sin and serve God in the present. Suicide is a choice to forsake God and there can be no repentance from suicide because you can't repent after death. John 3:16 in its context aligns with Ezekiel 18:23-32 (since God's Word is consistent and it is the same God speaking throughout the bible). Can you read John 3:17-21 and still say God will accept a person and apply Christ's atonement to them as they choose darkness and commit suicide? Not the Holy God of Scripture. Suicide is by its very nature an act of unbelief and rejection of God's right to you. I am writing now to refute OSAS and abuse of grace as a license to sin in general; yet I originally commented because there may be people in despair or mental instability reading this (as I have been in too). They need to know that there is indeed hope in a living faith in Jesus (which indeed means choosing to suffer for the sake of His Word/Truth even when living itself seems like a burden). There is no hope in suicide and it is not compatible with a living faith in Christ. Those who are in despair should not make it worse by rebelling against and cutting themselves off from the very source of Hope. "17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." (Romans 8:17) The Bible frequently says "if"- and "if" is meaningless should you get the same thing even when you don't meet the condition that "if" stated.

 2019/6/14 21:17Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5241
NC, USA

 Re:

That’s a bunch of hooey gt768.

I hope you are confessing 24/7 every second of every day because God forbid you sin and then croak before you have s chance to confess it.


_________________
Todd

 2019/6/14 22:21Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1934


 Re: croaking




Hooey

noun -

silly or worthless talk, writing, ideas, etc.; nonsense; bunk

RELATED WORDS

bananas, garbage, absurdity, fatuity, bunk, baloney, blather, bombast, claptrap, babble, giddiness, imprudence, idiocy, drivel, bull, balderdash, irrationality, hogwash, folly, foolishness

__________________________

I just broadened my vocabulary by looking this word up. I never thought it was even a word.

A side note;

I've got a small pond in my backyard. As I was writing this post I just heard one of the bullfrogs making noise. They all begin to croak loudly about this time of the evening. I've often thought that if I only knew their language I'd know what they were saying. But then again, it's probably just a bunch of hooey.

 2019/6/14 22:54Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3187
Texas

 Re:

Common sense tells us that many, if not most of us will die with sins of which we have not repented.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2019/6/14 23:17Profile
gt768
Member



Joined: 2019/6/12
Posts: 37


 Re:

God's Word is on my side and reveals who is speaking hooey.

Ephesians 5:5-12- "5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."

The Apostles of Christ say we're not to partake of evil with the children of disobedience, we're not to have any fellowship at all with the unfruitful works of darkness- and that any who do will face God's wrath; the Word says (directly to Christians by the way) "no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience." I say the same thing as they did and it's called hooey. Paris Reidhead said many similar things in "Ten Shekels and a Shirt", a message that I can see is promoted here- but those statements must be hooey too.
Quote from Ten Shekels and a Shirt: "If the only reason you repented, dear friend, was to keep out of Hell, then all you are is JUST A LEVITE SERVING FOR TEN SHEKELS AND A SHIRT! THAT'S ALL! You're trying to serve God because He'll do you good! But a repentant heart is a heart that has seen something of the enormity of the crime of playing God and denying the just and righteous God the worship and obedience that He deserves! Why should a sinner repent? BECAUSE GOD DESERVES THE OBEDIENCE AND LOVE THAT THE SINNER HAS REFUSED
TO GIVE HIM! Not so that he'll go to heaven. If the only reason he repents is so that he'll go to heaven, it's nothing but trying to make a deal or a bargain with God. WHY SHOULD A SINNER GIVE UP ALL HIS SINS? WHY SHOULD HE BE CHALLENGED TO DO IT? WHY SHOULD HE MAKE RESTITUTION WHEN HE'S COMING TO CHRIST? BECAUSE GOD DESERVES THE OBEDIENCE THAT HE DEMANDS!"

Yet on the same site that promotes this sermon the majority (at least of the vocal ones) here are actually saying that one can turn their back on God, go live in sin, and not give the Holy God of Scripture the worship and obedience that He demands, even to the point of committing suicide (one of the ultimate acts of playing God) and yet they might still go to heaven anyways (i.e. "ye shall not surely die"). And then someone comes along and says with the Apostles to willful sinners "ye shall surely die- repent, serve God faithfully, suffer for Truth, ye must endure to the end to be saved like the Bible says so that iniquity shall not be your ruin"- and that is called hooey. Incredible.

I'm sure the Lord was told He was speaking hooey (by those who professed to God's people at that) when He insisted that ALL the uncleanness depart from the Temple.

 2019/6/15 1:53Profile
gt768
Member



Joined: 2019/6/12
Posts: 37


 Re:

I could give more Scriptures if necessary. Where is the option in these to just take yourself out of the picture by self-murder; or to just take pleasure in sinning and then vilify those who dare somehow try to argue that God will accept that or turn a blind eye to such who mock His mercy (even if they've been converted in the past)?

Psalm 103:17-18- "But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children; 18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them."

Matthew 7:13-17 "13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit." (Matthew 7:13-17)

Matthew 24:9-14: "9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

Proverbs 14:9- "Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour."

Revelation 21:6-8- "6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Jesus didn't overcome for any of us; we have to overcome through Him (Hebrews 5:9, etc). I'm sure many of the fearful (i.e. cowardly) believed the lie that Jesus had forgiven their future sins and that they didn't need to run their race faithfully; same with those others described in verse 8 above. In many cases suicide was justified and went ahead with. How hateful to further this deception.

Satan is deceiving left and right, especially with his many versions of OSAS heresies- and especially through respected evangelical teachers/preachers. Heed the whole counsel of God and know for sure that to abide in Christ (i.e. remain in Christ) you need to fear God, shun sin to the best of your ability, keep His covenant as a whole, confess and forsake your sins in repentance to Christ your Lord and High Priest (you need Him in both these offices still) when/if you fail, and be faithful to His Word unto death (not the self-seeking death of suicide but rather suffering for the Truth of the Word however is necessary to be faithful).

Revelation 12:11- "11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

 2019/6/15 2:37Profile





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