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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What the self wants

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JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1104
Dothan, Alabama

 What the self wants

Per brother Todd’s request for a practical presentation/illustration of “dying to self” from pockets of glory thread-

The self wants;
To win
To grow
To acquire
To be adored
To be envied
To be respected
To be feared
To be honored
It desires more
It’s acts are to preserve itself
It’s aims are to protect itself
It’s methods are to promote itself
It requires stimulation
It seeks recognition
It wants domination
To be lord.....

Now not all of these things are evil in and of themselves and are in fact desires given us by God, however for us to seek them apart from God or in an effort to become “god” is a place of error that leads to the destruction of the very thing that seeks to be preserved.

It was found that the more I attempted to deny my “self”, as our Lord commands, I found that the bondages actually strengthened 😳 so I tried harder and they got stronger 😐 in fact it (my personal Romans 7 experience) took years to expose my own self effort to me. I thought I had already been “saved” 🤔 and while I had experienced the love of God and Jesus had rescued me from certain destruction, that only proves that He is savior and not necessarily that I am “saved” to the extent that I wouldn’t require additional “saving”.... having also been baptized in Holy Spirit as well as discipled all of these actually served to strengthen the very self that sought to ursup authority from God over His creation. In short He gave me everything I asked for and it brought me to nought, like quicksand... the more I struggled the faster I sank.

It is/was unbelievably humiliating to realize that, even though I had been “saved” that “I” was still the problem and not only this but that my very efforts to be relieved only served to further entrench me in the very things I sought deliverance from 🤬 needless to say I wasn’t a very pleasant person to be around as the frustration mounted (my pride being exposed) I fought all the harder till one night I, so overwhelmingly defeated, simply cried out to God. Although I had been well “saved” I still needed “saving” ??
Honestly I didn’t even know what from really, only that this couldn’t be what He wanted in me and if He didn’t do something then all was lost, all was in vain and I was powerless to do anything but make it worse in spite of my best efforts....
The next morning when I awoke the change was undeniable for me, the Lord had opened my eyes to see that all this time I had still been in bondage to self and He has led/allowed me to become so exhausted by its fruits that I literally asked Him to be free from it, which He gladly obliged 😇
I had come to a place where I didn’t want success for my self, for I had experienced enough of this “success” that I could see it was a lie and actually was destroying my soul as it consumed the resources of my soul to fuel its efforts.

The “death of self” is actually being “delivered from self” for until we are delivered from it we will undoubtably serve it even though we may not realize it.
It is the work of the Spirit that reveals this discrepancy between what is real and what is false yet the self seeks to deny reality in favor of its projections.
Romans 8 really does an amazing job in articulating the experience of this deliverance... And while before my mind could make sense of the words, now my being is experiencing their reality and the difference is life and death...
The self seeks to be right
The Spirit seeks to be righteous
The self will fight for its rights
The Spirit will gladly suffer reproach
The self lies as it is a child of the devil
The Spirit speaks truth in love as a child of God

At the end of the day the “death of self” is something God must do in/for us but.... we must truly desire Him to do it - for it is only in freedom that we can serve the living God and who the Son sets free is free indeed 🙏🏻

Pretty sure I’ve rambled on quite a bit,... but I hope you can sort through and find some useful nuggets:)

Also others experience/testimonies of what God can/will do are welcomed:)))


_________________
Fletcher

 2019/5/3 8:43Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5163
NC, USA

 Re: What the self wants

👍


_________________
Todd

 2019/5/3 10:22Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1039
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: What the self wants


Fletcher:

This piece that you've written...

should be nailed to every church door in America.

Amen and Amen and Amen to all you've said.


_________________
Marvin

 2019/5/3 15:53Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1958
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: What the self wants

Fletcher: There is not a font large enough to type AMEN to sufficiently express my agreement with what you have just written. THIS IS IT!!! This is where God desires us to be. Totally out of self and totally filled with Him. Thank you for the post.


_________________
Travis

 2019/5/4 9:27Profile
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Joined: 2018/9/6
Posts: 130


 Re: What the self wants

"If He didn’t do something then all was lost, all was in vain and I was powerless to do anything but make it worse in spite of my best efforts...."

That is so true but as long as we think that we can somehow improve our self we will try everything we can.

If you do not know this truth you will find out that every single time that you try to do good you will fail. You will find that there is a law that prevents you from ever doing good.


_________________
Vern

 2019/5/4 14:59Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1958
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Agreed vern. The efforts of the flesh can only produce the fruit of the flesh. It only empowers sin. But if the flesh dies then I am freed from sin.


_________________
Travis

 2019/5/4 17:26Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 299
Cambodia

 Re:

Eleven minute long treatment of the killing of sinful self. Lots of Scripture that gives God's guidance on the issue.

https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/if-im-dead-to-sin-why-must-i-kill-it-every-day

The fight belongs to us..... the desire, strength, means, weapons and victory belong to God, to His glory and His grace.

If I didn't link that right, someone please help me. Thanks, it would be greatly appreciated because I think this Q and A speaks clearly to the issue.


_________________
Robert

 2019/5/4 20:33Profile
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Joined: 2018/9/6
Posts: 130


 Re: Robert

He makes some good points but I do not fully agree with him.

1. Our old self was crucified with Christ and is now DEAD.

Yes that is 100% true.

2. We need to reckon our selves dead!

Yes but this reckoning does not make us dead. It is impossible to reckon our self dead if it was not a real accomplished fact.

3. It is impossible to kill something that is already dead but we can treat it as actually being dead. This is reckoning.

4. There is a fight of faith but is NOT with flesh and blood or with a dead self. The fight is with the lies of the devil who is attempting to make us believe that we are not dead after all and we have somehow to fix that.

5. The work of Christ on the cross is 100% complete and total. Everything that needed to die - actually died!! Nothing was left out. The first Adam has no influence or power over us at all.

We have been crucified - this is the old man - the old self - that thinks it is independent from God.

This crucifixion is actual and real NOT potential. When Christ was crucified and died, He was truly and actually crucified and died. There was NOTHING potential about it it. We were IN Him so when He was crucified and we were crucified in Him. When He died we died in Him.

Now this death was totally complete and an utter death. Everything that needed to die actually died. Everything that needed to cease was ceased. Nothing was left out. This means that all this old I, The old man-self, and the 1st Adam could NEVER become alive again or somehow ever be resurrected again.

A Christian does not still have two natures within him that at war with each other. That teaching is a lie. My former old man, that old fallen spirit, is dead and buried. It is not an issue in any way whatsoever, except. Except my mind still remembers it and still thinks as if it is real.

KNOWING THIS that our old man was crucified with Him. – Christ I have been crucified with. The cross has set me free, absolute and today; Jesus IS the only life I am.

Many Christians do not believe that the cross of Christ has been truly effective for them, but rather, that they must struggle to put themselves to death on an insufficient cross. They believe that because they judge themselves by outward appearance according to the accuser.

The Cross is absolute. The Cross is total. Everything that needed to die - actually died and ceased to exist. IT IS DEAD

6. We have been raised with Christ. His LIFE is now our only life!

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: (my old self - the old man - the Adam nature was totally and completely crucified and died with Christ - what was needed to die is now dead and never can be resurrected again) neverthless I live; (I am still here) yet not I, (the Christ infused I because I have been made ONE by God in Christ and no separation exists between us. I am now in reality one with the person of Christ) but Christ liveth in me: (YES! His Life within me is now my real and only life) and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, (HE IS MY LIFE and He is my LIVING CONNECTION to God the father. He is the author - initiator and finisher of my faith - His faith is my faith.) who loved me (and pours out his love on me and within me second by second every day), and gave himself for me. (This is a continually giving of HIMSELF to me in a never ending discovery of HIM inside me that just keeps unfolding and keeps giving).

7. The real truth is that there is no self to deal with!!! How could there be? We can agree with God's words on this.






_________________
Vern

 2019/5/5 9:02Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1104
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

It’s interesting to note that ;
We are controlled by/a slave to what we seek-
“You are a slave to whom you obey, either sin (self) unto death or obedience (spirit) unto life.”
“be ye therefore no longer conformed into the image of the world” (self-seeking)
“Love not the world” (self-seeking)
“Friendship with the world” (self-seeking)

“Therefore seek ye first the kingdom and its righteousness” (God-seeking)
“Rather be ye transformed by the renewing of the mind” (God-seeking)


We are what we eat -
“Lord I found your word and I ate it”
“Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word from the mouth of God”
“Unless you eat of my flesh”
“I am the bread that came down from heaven”


My “self” can only find fulfillment in the things of this world, for this is its home... in order to seek fulfillment of my flesh I have to be in “fellowship” with it and not with God.
So in every instance of life, in every decision I have a choice to either go my own way or seek out and wait on God. In either case the decision will “feed” one or the other growing in either worldliness or Christ likeness, so each decision is making us more holy or less holy in that I am being conformed into that which I choose to act on. I can say, “I love Jesus” with my mouth but with my life choices literally deny Him,... in many cases this is though a lack of knowledge as many are taught only mouth confession is required and righteous living not so much. Honestly this seems to be the result of not actually believing the scriptures in that God claims to be sufficient to supply all that is needed for life and godliness yet we often say “yeah but we will always sin, there was only one perfect person and you’re not it”. These things seem in conflict insomuch as our lives reflect the truth of this conflict by producing fruit consistent with hypocrisy and not the fruit of holiness. No wonder the world mocks us... it is we whom bring reproach on the name of Christ and His church!
The answer, it seems, is quite simply to literally obey the words of Jesus... “seek ye first the kingdom and it’s righteousness” whereas we all too often seek our kingdom (self) and put a Jesus buddy sticker on it.... where did we learn this? From the world and not from God. How do are we building “our kingdom” instead of seeking His? We are cutting Him out of the loop of our decisions.... and we (at best) futilely apply the principles found in scripture which is straight up a “form of godliness but denying the power thereof”... the power of God is His Spirit and His Spirit is living and cannot be fully contained in scripture “ye search the scriptures thinking in them you will find each eternal life, yet they testify of me and you will not come to me”. The reason we “go our own way” mistaking the “internal for the eternal” is we are not letting God be God but are exalting our “self” by allowing our “self” to play the role of God by effectively denying God the right to decide (in every case) directing our steps, as it were....
Just consider yourself this morning.... how many decisions did “you” make in your flesh this morning before 9am? Now the only basis the self has to make decisions is the knowledge of “good & evil” and it is upon this tree that the self feasts with each subsequent decision that was made apart from God (tree of life).... So all those decisions you made this morning before 9am that sought what “You” wanted,... what “You” thought was best each serve, to build, as blocks in “Your” kingdom and are each sin....
full stop-
That’s why “there is a way that seems right but leads to death” because the wages of sin is death... it seems “right” to our flesh so we act on it, building on it all the while ourselves being the “god” of our kingdom ....
It’s only when we realize that this itself is/was the deception satan uses to trick people into serving as his emissaries as “evangelists of self” whose gospel is humanism...
this is precisely where Paul found himself in Romans 7,... and if not for the law of God, he (Paul) would have never known he was unwittingly serving evil...
so I’m n Romans 8 we find him,(Paul) having been delivered, now realizing that the ONLY WAY not to dishonor God and cheat Him out of that for which He shed His blood (the right to be God in us- Christ in us the hope of glory) is to be continuously, hopelessly dependent on Him for everything concerning His kingdom.
Consider the words of our savior (paraphrased from memory) “the son can do nothing in and of himself, but all things are of the Father,... the son doesn’t say anything he hasn’t heard his Father say, he doesn’t do anything he hasn’t seen his Father do, if you’ve seen the son you’ve seen the Father for the Father and I are one” - Is this our testimony!??? If not then according to 1John we are not His but are liars and the truth (Jesus) is not in us.... and it doesn’t matter what we say we believe or even what we do in Jesus name!!! Matt 7:21-Luke 13:27
It only matters what we do that He, Himself told us to do,... what we say that He,Himself told us to say and EVERYTHING ELSE is sin! Because we are “prophesying” words He did not put in our mouths... but have in fact hijacked His cause (glorifying His Son) and used it to our ends, self-glorification...

1 Peter 4:11 “If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”


_________________
Fletcher

 2019/5/5 11:06Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 926


 Re:

Bro. Fletcher,

So refreshing and,...

Absolutely truth and sound doctrine!!!

...A rarity.

Wow! What a blessing,

——————-♥️
elizabeth



 2019/5/5 13:01Profile





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