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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The third person on the trinity a biblical perspective and what he is not

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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5255


Happy birthday Dom!

Yes I think he can truly love the Lord and be wrong on some points. No one can be sure they have everything 100% right.

There are millions of folks filling pews with solid doctrine but zero love for people.


 2019/3/29 17:48Profile

Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1780
Hemel Hempstead


If someone truly loves the lord where is his love of the bible

Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Jhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Jhn 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jhn 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Maybe the megachurch trend missed you by as most people such as in Joel osteens church do not sit in his church because of sound doctrine or elevation church under Steven furtick
You do a search of the most popular churches and you would find that people are filling pews for the prosperity gospel and entertainment in places like Hillsong, bethel and elevation church.

There are not millions of people filling churches due to sound doctrine there is no evidence for that.

Podcasts - religious Apple
There is no

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

A pastor should not even be in the pulpit if he does not preach sound doctrine

Tts 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tts 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Tts 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Tts 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

I would denote that he can have no love of the lord , there are millions of people in pews going to hell because they do not know the gospel due to the entertainment and people pleasing but not god pleasing

Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man

Jhn 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Jhn 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

These pastors love neither god nor man

There are no churches being filled up because of sound doctrine

Dominic Shiells

 2019/3/30 6:24Profile

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1923


There are churches and pastors everywhere preaching sound doctrine. Every pastor I have been under since the 70s has loved the word and sound doctrine. Respectfully, it seems a bit wrong to call out the people you have and make it sound like one size fits all churches everywhere. Megachurches are not inherently evil just because they are large. Three thousand souls were added to the early church in one day. If there were no megachurches folks would be saying why aren't there any large churches. Large churches rise up and then believers start condemning them. Dang if you don't and dang if you do! Not necessarily the ones you spoke of but I would venture many large churches do preach sound doctrine. The Lord's hand is not so short.

David Winter

 2019/3/30 10:06Profile

Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1780
Hemel Hempstead


I was just using data such as the most popular podcasts on say apple or the most bestselling books in Christianianity at this present time to prove that we do not have say bible commentaries in the Christian bestseller list instead we have self help books and prosperity books and NAR books.
So if you do a survey of what Christian literature has been selling.

Charles spurgeon had a mega church but he was preaching sound doctrine

Name me one megachurch that preaches sound doctrine as I can only think of maybe one or two out of thousands

To me the evidence from things like books sales , podcasts and other things proves that most of the church is not into sound doctrine

Dominic Shiells

 2019/3/30 10:29Profile

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1923


Jim Cymbala is the featured speaker right now on SI. What about his church? What about Carter Conlon and his congregation? What about the large Reformed and Baptist churches across the land who preach and teach sound doctrine? There are pastors in almost every city and town in America and elsewhere who preach sound doctrine and have never shied away from it.

David Winter

 2019/3/30 11:55Profile

Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1780
Hemel Hempstead


There are a few I didn't say there isn't
Most of the reformed churches in the UK are terrible and there has been the social gospel controversy recently with Tim Keller and Albert mohler.

I am not a Calvinist but I respected people like this r c Sproul before he died and preachers like David Wilkerson

I would agree with people like carter conlon , I would say there are small congregations scattered throughout the country
but who is buying these heretical books

I also have problems with some of the Baptist churches as lots of them have been infiltrated by NAR theology .

Look at the podcasts

Christian bestseller books

I mean the amount of books that I have read on the holy spirit including the book by r t Kendall which states that you have the holy spirit and the word and once they are joined together .

If you read the scriptures you need the word to get the holy spirit

All types of debauchery and false prophecy has been used in the name of the holy spirit

I think the holy spirit is one of the most abused person of the trinity in the church at the moment

Also they try and use the holy spirit to unite Catholics and protestants and then with the interfaith movement

Then with the Toronto blessing movement and then the bethel movement with the gold dust and angel feathers

Todd Bentley with him kicking people

Then you have the craziness of people like Heidi baker and Benny hinn who use the holy spirit for there meetings when it is clearly demonic

Dominic Shiells

 2019/3/30 13:59Profile

Joined: 2010/1/9
Posts: 237


Since Jesus intercedes always for us and the devil accuses us day and night, maybe it is time for you, Dominic, to ask the Holy Spirit to help you intercede for these that you bring such accusations against..



 2019/3/31 13:10Profile

Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1780
Hemel Hempstead


Please read what this post is about before you accuse me as the whole post is about the holy spirit

What spirit are you of

The bible talks in
John 16

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: note (Compare)

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
The bible talks about convicting this world of sin, righteous and judgement yet to come

Maybe should read what I posted before you make a hasty judgements

Contend earnestly for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Jude 1
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. note

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. note

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

The bible in Mark

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world

Dominic Shiells

 2019/3/31 14:57Profile

Joined: 2011/10/27
Posts: 322

 Re: The third person on the trinity a biblical perspective and what he is not

I understand what you are trying to say.

1. There are some well-known churches doing things in the name of the Holy Spirit that do not fit with the Biblical description of Who the Holy Spirit is or what He does.

2. In some cases, "revelations" from people who claim to speak through the Holy Spirit ("prophets" and "prophesying") are given more weight than the Word of God itself. I know some people who seek this type of revelation because they want a word from God that is personal to them. But they are giving extra-Biblical "revelation" a lot of importance, instead of learning what God has to say to them in the scripture and in prayer.

3. Often these people claiming to speak through the Holy Spirit are wrong. Therefore, it seems that they are saying that the Holy Spirit can contradict the scriptures.

There is unfortunately a lot of abuse of the Holy Spirit. That is because many (most?) in those (our?) churches are biblically illiterate and they accept a lot of this because they are not aware it contradicts the Bible. Also, many read the Bible and interpret it based on their experience and not what the Word actually says.

In those churches, there are many who are open to truth, if it is given.

For those churches/pastors that we see are misusing/abusing the Holy Spirit, I believe that we who can see it are called to pray that the Truth of Christ and of the Holy Spirit be revealed to them and that they turn from their error. If any is acting on purpose to deceive, we ought to pray that they be revealed, exposed, discredited, and removed.


 2019/3/31 20:42Profile

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