| Worship Music Ministers |
Q. Should the music ministers at church be paid?
Please keep to the question. The question is not whether or not there ought to be a worship leader or band. Neither is the question whether or not their ought to be music. Nor is the question what type or kind of music.
| 2019/2/26 16:22||Profile|
| Re: Worship Music Ministers |
If there is no scriptural mandate either old or new covenants, any pay would be entirely free-will and up to the leadership.
| 2019/2/26 16:40||Profile|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: |
It is a good question brother as the music band has taken a great place in the church services of evangelical churches. Essentially the quality and sound of the worship is a decision for people coming to staying at a church. In many cases I have seen whole congregations barely singing while a very capable music band sings the worship for them with great amplification.
I am not against music instruments or amplification but when the service becomes a show then the worship stops, the people of God do not engage.
I personally do not see it necessary for people to be paid for worship in the Church service. The minister / presbyter is the one of which scripture declares the labourer is worthy of a reward for the preaching of the gospel and the work of overseeing the believers.
In many earlier historic churches all the people would sing or chant together. It was called "liturgy" meaning "the work of the people." Interaction of ALL was required. Scripture readings where responsive where the congregation needed to take part. Sadly we are far from that interaction where in churches it can feel like a well crafted hour long show where zero participation is required.
I do agree with the last brothers estimation that if leadership of a church feels it is beneficial to compensate a worship leader that is not dis-allowed in scripture to do nor is it commanded.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2019/2/26 17:00||Profile|
| Re: Worship Music Ministers |
I’ve heard some preachers refer to David appointing singers to praise the Lord everyday in the Temple for this position and explain the need for a music ministry position.
| 2019/2/27 0:31||Profile|
| Re: mandates |
Thanks for the responses thus far.
I have not seen any mention of particular verses of Scripture yet though. Might that be because there are none.
If any know of NT verses that touch on the subject, please bring them forward.
We have a number of places in the NT giving instruction and example of the believers meetings. I'm not aware of anywhere that it's written in regard to these worship ministers. Therefore, determining whether or not they're to be paid or not with a "thus saith the Scripture" or "it is written" type of clarity is not possible.
Similarly, there's no mention of a youth pastor or a youth group. So we've got no instruction of any sort in regard to to those.
The absence of all of these shows either their insignificance, or that they are the invention of men who have introduced them into the meeting of the family of God.
I see the Word, fellowship, prayer, breaking of bread mentioned. All unto edification of the body of Christ to the Glory of God. And for the equipping of each member.
But these others (worship ministers and youth ministers) I see nowhere mentioned.
On another note, I cannot find any reason that anyone of us would be paid to worship God, as we come together for this purpose.
Are we at liberty to introduce into our Father's house any fancy of our own without any warrant by Him?
This subject was being addressed by some of us brothers this past Sunday. This is why I posed the question to you all. Hoping to get some Scriptural answers. But thus far I have none.
One of the men who was part of the discussion has a younger brother who is presently being paid each Sunday to be a worship leader for not one, but three worship services.
I can think of a couple places in the NT where money is mentioned in association with ministry. I am not referring those passages where compensation for those who proclaim the Word, namely the elder or evangelist. Or we could use the more common word of missionary.
If anyone is interested in further discussion from a biblical perspective on this, please comment.
Marvin, to conclude as you have, that "If there is no scriptural mandate either old or new covenants, any pay would be entirely free-will and up to the leadership", is not a "one size fits all" answer. It's too vague, and it leaves too much open to men to introduce a whole lot into the worship of God. There's much, not mandated nor mentioned which would be inappropriate for such a sacred practice as our worship of God.
I realize that our life is to be lived to the Glory of God, and that we worship Him daily as we live, move and have our being. And the familiar verse states this plainly, "Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship."Romans 12:1.
But I'm specifically speaking of when we believers come together to meet with God and worship Him.
Again, thank you for corresponding on this, as all would agree, this subject of music on a whole is no small matter.
| 2019/2/27 8:19||Profile|
| Re: |
Hi Savannah: I didnt quote any texts because I couldnt think of one either old or new that mandated pay to music ministers.
It's true my response is vague, but I think you have explained it well enough to defer my response to yours.
| 2019/2/27 13:53||Profile|
| Re: |
To stay on question,I guess the answer for me is whether it is beneficial to the Church whether they get paid.If the Worship leader has to work in a secular Job and in working in the secular job has to neglect the leading of the Church in worship then it may be beneficial to the Church if the worship leader gets paid so the Church may be edified.This may not happen much of the time however.
To go off question,
Their is a good point by SI that worship is not a "show" its not a "performance" its the worship team and the congregation interacting with God and although the Team will want to be perfessional sounding and hit the right notes its for the glory of God ,not adulation of the crowd.urs staff
| 2019/2/28 16:38||Profile|
1 Chronicles 25 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Number and Services of Musicians
25 Moreover, David and the commanders of the army set apart for the service some of the sons of Asaph and of Heman and of Jeduthun, who were to prophesy with lyres, harps and cymbals; and the number of [a]those who performed their service was: 2 Of the sons of Asaph: Zaccur, Joseph, Nethaniah and [b]Asharelah; the sons of Asaph were under the [c]direction of Asaph, who prophesied under the [d]direction of the king. 3 Of Jeduthun, the sons of Jeduthun: Gedaliah, [e]Zeri, Jeshaiah, [f]Shimei, Hashabiah and Mattithiah, six, under the [g]direction of their father Jeduthun with the harp, who prophesied in giving thanks and praising the Lord. 4 Of Heman, the sons of Heman: Bukkiah, Mattaniah, [h]Uzziel, [i]Shebuel and Jerimoth, Hananiah, Hanani, Eliathah, Giddalti and Romamti-ezer, Joshbekashah, Mallothi, Hothir, Mahazioth. 5 All these were the sons of Heman the king’s seer to [j]exalt him according to the words of God, for God gave fourteen sons and three daughters to Heman. 6 All these were under the [k]direction of their father to sing in the house of the Lord, with cymbals, harps and lyres, for the service of the house of God. Asaph, Jeduthun and Heman were under the [l]direction of the king. 7 Their number who were trained in singing to the Lord, with their [m]relatives, all who were skillful, was 288.
| 2019/3/1 7:09||Profile|
greater NYC area
| Re: 288|
I will go off topic here, and if anyone wants to start a new thread in response, feel free.
I find it *very* interesting that New Testament/New Covenant Christianity was not ever meant to continue the forms & traditions of Old Testament temple worship & practices. Since our Lord Jesus spoke of His body as the temple (and of born again believers as part of His body) then a lot of the outward forms of temple worship (many types & shadows) are now internal.
Having a large building was never a program in the Gospels or Epistles. We are part of that temple not made with human hands. So a lot of this externalizing (and justification for salaried positions in worship music & elsewhere in today's contemporary church scene) is quite superfluous to the preaching of an anointed, soul-winning Word with signs following. Only a powerless gospel needs smoke & mirrors (and lotsa mammon to support it).
| 2019/3/1 8:45||Profile|
| Re: |
If any know of NT verses that touch on the subject, please bring them forward
I will take that one step further. Worship music itself, apart from mentions of singing in heaven in Revelation, is not mentioned at all in the New Testament. Singing is only mentioned once to my knowledge. "and when they had sung an hymn..."
This lack of mention does not mean that singing in worship to the Lord is not to be done in the church. We understand that it is an important part of our gatherings because it turns our focus on adoration of Him for who He is. It is, if you want, a corporate expression of, "Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name."
I think our real problem is when we take any aspect of our walk with God or of our corporate meetings and exalt it inordinately. We can be so focused on expository preaching that we totally ignore corporate worship. The result will be intellectual understanding and no life of the Spirit. We will be straight as a gun barrel and just as empty. We can focus on worship and ignore good teaching and get really weird and off with our doctrine. We love God intimately, but we are unstable as water. Extend this to any area of our corporate life, and we get off.
I have been part of growing fellowships for much of my life. I have seen many pastors work 40 hours a week and do the work of pastoring at the same time, and then i have seen the churches grow so that the pastor really needs to be supported full time by the church in order to be effective.
In my opinion, this also applies to worship leaders or music ministers. I personally have a difficult time imagining a scenario where a worship leader or musician would be putting in a full time work of ministry if music is their only job in the body, unless the church had enough activity that this person needed to be there and prepare full time. But I don't see the Bible speaking to it either way.
Interestingly enough, to the New Testament church it seems, by absence of mention, that organized worship as we do it in our churches simply was non-existent. Then again, if we ever reach the point of persecution where our meetings are driven underground, we might look more like they did and simply sing out as a group praises to God without any of the other trappings.
A good worship band is awesome. But like anything else, we cannot give it inordinate attention or importance. Let it have it's place in each body as God directs the leadership of that body.
| 2019/3/1 10:10||Profile|