| Question on Majority council and Rom 12:7|
I have 2 "questions" I'd like to discuss with you men of God.
1) I had someone tell me "there is wisdom in council." They were saying that, meaning there is wisdom in council (an assembly of men). However, does the Bible support that statement. I have done some studying on that statement, and I find scripture stating there is wisdom in counsel (Pr 12:15), but not council. It was over the operation of the church. He said if the church votes, he goes with the majority (which I agree for the most part), but I feel the final decision should go to the man of God. I said, so if the church voted to do _______ and the Holy Ghost told you they were wrong, you would still go with the majority? He says yes. Enlighten me please!!
2)I was also wanting to hear some of your thoughts on Rom 12:7. Is God saying we should sit and wait on our ministering or is he saying we should wait on our ministering (to attend to, as servants)?
| 2019/2/22 11:40||Profile|
| Re: Question|
As for the second question, he is saying wait on your minstering or pay attention to it and perform it. I had the same question once.
| 2019/2/22 11:57||Profile|
| Re: |
| 2019/2/22 14:01||Profile|
| Re: Question|
Answering your first question, I wholeheartedly believe that democracy is not God's method at all. When in Israel they asked for a King, God did not allow them to elect a king but he chose one for them.
In entire new testament there is not a single thing that was decided by election, other than appointing of the 7 for food distribution in acts 7. But we do not practice many things from acts like selling our properties and giving it to Church, casting lot to chose the apostle etc! Why do we choose to follow this one alone? Are we not pick and choosing from acts?
I think the issues with CHurch today is because CHurches have brought into a worldly system like democracy into it. Leading to all kinds of destruction.
Every Church should submit willfully to a Godly person who will be their apostle. This Apostle should appoint leaders in the Church who intern take the decisions in the Church.
| 2019/2/22 14:49||Profile|
| Re: |
While I agree the church is not a democracy, it's also not to be a man-centered (apostolic) monarchy.
In a sense, it's a monarchy, in that Christ Jesus is our King.
The more I study church government, the way Christ Jesus lived and operated, the more I am convinced that any "systematic formal organization" of the church beyond a husband and wife (household), over reaches his teachings, and the way He lived and walked. I know he was not married, but he did speak of husbands cleaving to their wives and the two becoming "one flesh". Of course marriage is not a requisite to be his disciple, as he was not married.
Notice, Christ Jesus did not use the word "apostle" that I am aware of, and for good reason. He used the word "disciple".
| 2019/2/22 16:17||Profile|
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In the new testament, I can't remember any chuch decision by casting/counting of votes. But certainly there were argumentation and hearings e.g. Mat 18:15-17 and the Acts 15.
It maybe useful in particular instances though.
| 2019/2/22 19:15||Profile|
| Re: |
Acts 6 has a glorious testimony of what I perceive is an example of a healthy, Christ-centered way of disciples making choices.
“Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution.
And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables.
Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.
But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."
And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch.
These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them.” - Acts 6:1-6
But Acts 1 has another example, and I’m still perlexed by it, because it does testify to the disciples casting lots, as part of what they believed to be making a decision to fulfill a prophecy from Psalms.
“For it is written in the Book of Psalms, "'May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it'; and "'Let another take his office.'
So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us-one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection."
And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias.
And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen
to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."
And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.” -Acts 1:20-26
I have to ponder this passage more deeply. Surely it’s not prescriptive?
| 2019/2/22 19:42||Profile|
| Re: Question on Majority council and Rom 12:7|
Llamyo: I will give you my thoughts.
Second question first: Wait upon does mean attend to. If I am called to teach, I should be diligent in study of the Word and prayer and preparing to teach. Dwell where you have been called and allow God to develop that calling so it becomes fruitful in your life.
First question second: The verse that comes to my mind says that in the multitude of counsel there is safety: Prov. 11:14, 15:22, 24:6. However, to try to apply this to church government is to rip it grossly out of context.
The NT model for the church was a plurality of elders over a local body. These elders were not elected by the church as a whole, but ordained by spiritual oversight, usually a man of apostolic calling as seen by the example of Paul or Peter, who heard from God and understood that it was God who was appointing the eldership. These elders sought God together and made decisions based upon what the Holy Ghost told them. Popular elections in the church as a method of decision making are, in my opinion, a recipe for disaster. I agree with Sree, it is not God's way of governing a body. The final decision is God's and it is up to the eldership to seek Him and hear from Him so that the body goes in the direction that God leads.
Prov. 12:15 just tells us that a fool says, "I know better and I will do it my way.", while a wise man listens to counsel and heeds advice. Again, this verse is not speaking of church government and to try to make is do so is to rip it out of context in a very odd way.
| 2019/2/22 20:28||Profile|