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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Revival and the end of the age

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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5237
NC, USA

 Re:

Sarcasm I think Bill.

I think the point is that when the going gets tough the Church will be needed- not whisked away.


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Todd

 2019/2/17 16:47Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1908


 Re: Just collateral damage

I think for the most part the Church has sought to carry out the Great Commission over the centuries. A real effort has been made to evangelize the lost. The Church's treatment of the Jews has been sorely lacking at times.

Yet today the pre-trib teaching has brought something new and unheard of in church history. The notion is that when the Church makes a early exit that millions of unsuspecting people will die without God and it will just be collateral damage that can't be avoided. And Israel whom they proclaim to love will have to face the music on their own when they experience the wrath of Antichrist and tbe hostility of the nations.

"Terrified parents on airplanes will scream, "My babies, my babies!" Teddy bears and diapers are all that will be left on the seats. All children under age twelve disappear. Babies are sucked out of pregnant women's wombs as stupifed fathers watch ultrasound machines go blank. Planes and cars crash in fireballs. Media reports come in from around the country: "Trains were involved in head-ons with lots of death." God had Raptured the engineers before they could apply the brakes."

And if you are undergoing open heart surgery or surgery of some type and you are open if the surgeon is a Christian his surgical tools drop into you or to the floor and you are left high and dry. But you had adequate warning as all the other dead that a rapture was coming. It's not the long gone Church's fault you perished. It's just unavoidable collateral damage. And we were as committed as could be to the Jews and Israel but we never had any intention of being around during their time of deepest trouble. It's too bad many of them crashed into buildings or got caught in cars whose driver was raptured. They perished when Christ came
for us and gave us His promised early exit but fair warning was given to all beforehand you know.

Maybe sarcasm is wrong but it's hard to not be a little sarcastic toward such comic book fantasies that major portions of the Church have accepted as orthodox doctrine.


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David Winter

 2019/2/18 6:40Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3187
Texas

 Re:

Good morning David, I'm trying to follow you the best I can,because I want to understand your message here. David, Here's my thought on your message "if" I'm understanding you correctly. I would find it hard to believe with today's modern technologies, that "most" everyone has heard the name Jesus Christ, and had the opportunity to learn about him, and make the decision to invite him into their lives.

I don't believe for one second, that the folks on this earth, that have "never" heard the name Jesus Christ are going to anywhere but Heaven. Although many people may not know the full revelation of the gospel, none of us are totally ignorant of him. Personally I feel since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, and hopefully has been understood from what has been made. Will God send people to hell who have never heard of Jesus? In my opinion, I don't think He would ever punish people for rejecting Jesus if they’ve never heard of Jesus.

Will the people that have only just heard the name Jesus Christ, but really don't know anything about him or the Gospel go to Heaven? I don't know, but I'm sure his grace will carry to their death bed, and God will make that decision.

As for all the pre-trib or post-trib thinking/debates, I don't worry about that, if I die in all the havoc of the pre-trib, I know where my next destination is. Personally, I feel that if most folks that have invited Christ into their lives, and know their destination, had the opportunity to get a peek into Heaven today, most would probably check out today.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/2/18 9:51Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1908


 Re:

You seem to advocate a type of universal salvation here but it is not the subject of this thread and might be sorted out
elsewhere or in another thread. The subject is revival at the end of the age and the bottom line desire of why we may want it. And is the notion that millions of unsaved will die as unavoidable collateral damage at a pre-tribulation rapture a proper and true scriptural view? If as you say I od will not condemn anyone who has not heard the gospel would He in turn cause the death of unsaved millions at a early exit rapture?

You may want to check out today but so what? I understand that homesickness but the real question would seem to be outside of our own natural death when is God's appointed time of resurrection?


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David Winter

 2019/2/18 10:17Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3187
Texas

 Re:

Sorry David, please don't be to hard on me, or stereotype me with others here, I'm not a Bible scholar, or the sharpest knife in the drawer, and I do have some difficulties understanding some things, so I'll move on, and just read. Hopefully by just reading I'll gain a better understanding of this thread. Have a wonderful day.
Brother Bill


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Mr. Bill

 2019/2/18 10:23Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
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 Re:

Well bro I apologize if I seem hard. No problem with your comments and questions. I guess I suffer from a certain lack of patience at this point with large and glaring questions surrounding the pre-trib view which the advocates of this view seem very hesitant to address.

Thanks for being interested.


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David Winter

 2019/2/18 10:35Profile
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Joined: 2012/9/25
Posts: 591


 Re: Revival and the end of the age

Hello
As i prayed about this post.. My heart I believe is seeing that we all have a choice here.. We can be like Joshua and Caleb and focus on the LORD and see that HE can and will kill all the giants and take the land He has for us.. or we can focus on the grasshoppers and not enter our promised land..

Nos 13:
25 Forty days later, they came back from exploring the land. 26 They came back to Moses, Aaron, and the whole community of Israel at Kadesh in the Desert of Paran. They gave their report and showed them the fruit from the land.

27 This is what they reported to Moses: “We went to the land where you sent us. It really is a land flowing with milk and honey. Here’s some of its fruit. 28 But the people who live there are strong, and the cities have walls and are very large. We even saw the descendants of Anak there. 29 The Amalekites live in the Negev. The Hittites, Jebusites, and Amorites live in the mountain region. And the Canaanites live along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea and all along the Jordan River.”

30 Caleb told the people to be quiet and listen to Moses. Caleb said, “Let’s go now and take possession of the land. We should be more than able to conquer it.”

31 But the men who had gone with him said, “We can’t attack those people! They’re too strong for us!” 32 So they began to spread lies among the Israelites about the land they had explored. They said, “The land we explored is one that devours those who live there. All the people we saw there are very tall. 33 We saw Nephilim there. (The descendants of Anak are Nephilim.) We felt as small as grasshoppers, and that’s how we must have looked to them.”

I believe in GODs power and sound mind we can occupy whatever land He puts in front of us.. We have not been given the spirit of Fear but power love and sound mind.. May we all have the spirit of power love and sound mind and choose to Obey and live by FAITH and not by what we see. in JESUS name.


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Frannie

 2019/2/18 12:46Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1908


 Re: TMK

The scriptures I made reference to are all in close time proximity to the resurrection of the dead which I assume is at the end of this present evil age when Christ returns. I know you won't consider this bro or either maybe you spiritualize the literal descriptions of the resurrection.

The phenomena of Yahweh visually appearing with a literal cloud originates in the Penateuch. The book of Exodus relates multiple accounts of the LORD's glory cloud appearing to Moses and the Israelites. His divine presence descended in a thick cloud of darkness ("the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night") to protect and accompany the Israelites at the Red Sea (Ex 13:21-22; 14:19-20,24; Sam 22:10). The cloud visually appeared atop Mount Sinai, led the Israelites through their desert journeys and "dwelt among them" in the tabernacle (Ex19:9,11; 20;21; 24:15-18; 33:2,9-10; 34:5; Num 11:25; Deut 33:2). The cloud also filled the First Temple at its dedication by King Solomon (I Kings 8:11-13).

These were not metaphors. They actually saw the presence of God in literal visible clouds. Christ is very able to return on visible clouds of glory. At the end of this present evil age AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days (Matt 24:39-31).


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David Winter

 2019/2/18 13:57Profile





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