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Discussion Forum : General Topics : “Prayer uses God”

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twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1971
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
. This is what is known as authoritative prayer. Well seasoned intercessors understand this kind of prayer for it is the prayer of command in agreement with God's will. If God has said it, then the saints on earth and been given the authority to declare the will of God in any given situation.



I believe Mike nailed it here. This is the distinction. I might add a few things I have learned over the years to this.

Authority with God has nothing to do with the words we use. Ending a prayer with, "In Jesus Name" in no way indicates that we actually prayed in His name. Praying in His name is praying from a place of authority that is delegated to us by means of our surrender and intimacy with Him. It is praying as His representative. I represent Him as a son, not a servant. The servant conducts limited business in the name of the master because He has the masters legal authority. A son conducts business AS the Father because He has the Father's heart. When we, as a son that abides in the presence of the Father and has His heart, pray in accordance with the will of God, we can command the same things that the Father has commanded and see results.

All too often we have only a legal relationship with the Father. We know His laws, and we do our best in our flesh to keep those laws. They might be OT laws, or they might be what we would call NT principles. This is where we get it all messed up. We intellectually ascent to principles of faith that we have read or been taught, and we try to apply the principles with little result. Or we pray outside of His will because we are wanting to consume the answer upon our own lust, or perhaps because we are ignorant of His will and His ways and are simply praying based upon what man has taught us. In this we may be totally sincere, but God has not blessed sentiment, rather He has blessed His will and the faith that comes from true relationship.

Lets put it practically. A man who knows God and walks in constant intimacy prays for a sick person and simply says, "Sickness, be gone in Jesus name." The sickness leaves the person's body, and that person is healed instantly.

Then the man who knows the principles of God's word, but does not walk in intimacy, see this and thinks, "Oh, that is the secret. I have been praying wrong. I need to command the sickness to leave." Then this man tries to implement his new found method of prayer, and sees no results. This man is then confused and perplexed.

Just what I have noticed over the years.


_________________
Travis

 2019/2/18 9:52Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1971
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
literally, to interact with the Lord by switching human wishes (ideas) for His wishes as He imparts faith ("divine persuasion").



Love it!!! Good definition. I die to myself and my own wishes, desires, and wisdom and I now live with His imparted to and through me as I am intimate with Him.


_________________
Travis

 2019/2/18 9:58Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1062
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Thanks Savannah for the Hebrew clarification of the Isaiah text.
Back in 82-83 I ran into this when the faith teachers began to spout out our 'commanding of God' and they quoted this text. My spirit was disturbed by it so I read the Isa 45 text carefully...again and again. I saw clearly as Savannah opened the Hebrew of the text that God was not telling them to command him, instead he was speaking rhetorically of their audacity to 'command him'.

I do believe Mike is right on, we do have authority as believers to command...but those commands are directed at Demons, sickness, the elements. Just as Jesus did.

Travis shared a wonderful truth, that our prayers are relationally motivated and relationally directed.

The Spirit of God reveals the will of God to us, and transforms our mind and hearts to truly desire what God desires, to love and seek after what God seeks and loves. Here, there is cooperation because this agreement is the seed bed for prayers that are answered. In recognizing this, I recognize the silliness of 'commanding God', where it is not God that has a problem with working in this world, it's you and I that have a problem wanting what God wants in this world. When our conformity to his desires are accomplished...why command God when in fact it was God preparing us to accept what God has wanted all along?

Therefore I have said it is un-necessary.

But teaching that 'uses God' has faith acting independently of God's relation to us. This is foreign to scripture and as far as I am concerned anathema.


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Marvin

 2019/2/18 11:26Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1971
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Marvin: A very simple truth...faith which worketh by love. Faith is based entirely upon relationship, not upon intellectual or mental conviction. As I am intimate with Him, I am transformed into His image and the result is that I begin to think and act as He does. It becomes easy to believe Him because I KNOW Him and am walking in His love continually. I really believe it is this simple. The key is not found in trying to gin up more faith. The key is found in surrender and intimate relationship with Him that naturally brings faith.


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Travis

 2019/2/18 12:54Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1062
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Brother Travis:

great insight and well said. It is this very thing that is key to understanding why some are healed and some are not. This key opens up a door to faith, where we know God will answer our faith in him and bring about good to others. In discerning those whom you are praying for, when you are laying hands on them or ministering to them in some form, you learn that God requires faith in some for an answer, and requires only faith from you for others. Without this discernment or open-eared-readiness I've discovered I missed it expecting faith from others, and missed it when I should have believed God for faith from them in agreement. I see Jesus ministering this way, expecting faith from some and showing compassion without faith-from-them, both of them God honored and revealed his goodness and kindness.

Formulaic prayers that are based upon principle-in-action leave out this vital component.

Relationship with God is dynamic, a right now in-the-moment reality. I see this in Jesus ministry, his actions depict in-the-moment activity where his Father speaks and heals, corrects or teaches, delivers or feeds; he does this through his Son. Jesus prayers beforehand, in the early morning, in the evening, at night show the necessity for preparedness.

We see this in our blessed preachers who have spent their time with God and come out of their prayer closets with revelation and anointing...which feeds hungry sheep.
But we see little of this in other areas, healing, deliverance, miracles are so lampooned and mocked even when we want them we are jaded and cynical in the extreme.
Because of this kind of peer-approval, an anointed sermon is expected, an anointed man to heal...nah it's fake.

So, while I hear nothing but crickets out there from those who might approve of 'commanding God', I see by your posting Mike's and others commanding God seems out of place altogether when a rich and intimate relationship with God is present in the life of a godly man or woman.

At best, it's injection into a teaching comes from errant interpretation of Isaiah and a lack of the very relationship you speak of.


_________________
Marvin

 2019/2/18 17:46Profile
Martyr
Member



Joined: 2012/6/10
Posts: 221
United States

 Re:

A servant commanding his master? I have never heard of such a thing. If that was the case then the master is the servant and vice versa.


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Tyler

 2019/2/18 17:53Profile





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