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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Ezekiel 8: idolatry in the church and Judgement begins at the house of god

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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1831
Hemel Hempstead

 Ezekiel 8: idolatry in the church and Judgement begins at the house of god

Ezekiel 8
1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.

2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.

3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.

4 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.

5 Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.

6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.

7 And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.

8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.

9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.

10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.

11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.

12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.

13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.

14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.

16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. note

18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

1 Peter 4:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

What I always find interesting we look at the worlds problems and when is there going to be repentance in the church.

We are all a mess and need jesus.

How can we get the world to repent if there is no repentence
In the church.

Dominic Shiells

 2019/2/5 16:24Profile

Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 704

 Re: Repentance in the Church

Hi Dominic,

Guess Christians who need to repent cannot see that they need to repent.

Luke 18:11-12 –
The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.'

Totally ignorant of the verdict against him:

Matt. 23:23 –
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

It is so easy to see sin in others and so hard to see sin in oneself.

Even David was guilty.

Samuel 12:1-7 –
Then the LORD sent Nathan to David. And he came to him and said,
“There were two men in one city, the one rich and the other poor.
“The rich man had a great many flocks and herds.
“But the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb
Which he bought and nourished;
And it grew up together with him and his children.
It would eat of his bread and drink of his cup and lie in his bosom,
And was like a daughter to him.
“Now a traveler came to the rich man,
And he was unwilling to take from his own flock or his own herd,
To prepare for the wayfarer who had come to him;
Rather he took the poor man’s ewe lamb and prepared it for the man who had come to him.”
Then David’s anger burned greatly against the man, and he said to Nathan, “As the LORD lives, surely the man who has done this deserves to die. He must make restitution for the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing and had no compassion.”
Nathan then said to David, “You are the man!”


 2019/2/5 23:47Profile

Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 704

 Jesus, Friend of sinners

1 Tim. 1:15 –
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.

Jesus, Friend of sinners

“Let our hearts be
Led by mercy.
Help us reach with open hearts
And open doors.”


Luke 15:1-2 –
Now all the tax collectors and the sinners were coming near Him to listen to Him. Both the Pharisees and the scribes began to grumble, saying, "This man receives sinners and eats with them."

Verse 3-6 –
So He told them this parable, saying, ‘What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!'


Luke 5:29-31 –
And Levi gave a big reception for Him in his house; and there was a great crowd of tax collectors and other people who were reclining at the table with them. The Pharisees and their scribes began grumbling at His disciples, saying, "Why do you eat and drink with the tax collectors and sinners?"

Verses 31-32 –
And Jesus answered and said to them, "It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."

Matt. 5:46 –
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?


 2019/2/5 23:52Profile

Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1831
Hemel Hempstead

 Re: Jesus, Friend of sinners

We so often talk about a revival but the church needs to be revived before sinners can be saved.
The thing is even myself I know I have grew cold and need the fire of the gospel alive in my own life
I know in the last days the church will be apostate

It is like most churches look at say the abortion situation that has recently happened in New York but I think the statistics of abortion among the church or homosexuality and think that the church is worse.

People are so cold to the gospel in the U.K.
I so worry about in the next few years there will be no one due to online shopping.

Unless god comes down we are doomed and I wish I had the desire to pray.

People think that most problems can be solved through politics only if we had more Christians In power in politics then the nation would change

I know there is a perfect bride of Christ and a harlot.

The reason i bought up the passages in Ezekiel is that apostasy in the church today is everywhere and was in the temple itself.

The passage judgement begins at the house of god because judgement begins with the church

Shiloh was destroyed because of Eli and his sons. We have worse things going on in our churches that was going on in israel during the time of Samuel with things like the nar movement and prosperity gospel.
God did not accept there sacrifices and offerings during this time and the line of Aaron was banished.

The thing is I look at myself I know I am a mess , how can we turn the finger when we do not turn it upon are selves

I also think that the apostasy in the church is also to reveal the antichrist or anti messiah as the bible prophecy’s. Could the apostasy in the church actually be god.

I so long for a day when god comes down like Duncan Campbell because I think that is the only thing that can save the U.K.

Even in my own life I think unless god does something we are doomed , I can’t even pray without Jesus

Concentrating on worldly things rather than on Jesus I am guilty, also wanting to know more about the bible as I have read entire commentary series and know the archaology back to front.

It seems so that people don’t want to know about religion or political issues and escape through entertainment then god puts it in entertainment

My most unpleasant time was scouring though Christian books and wanting so desperately to recommend Christian books I have read the entire Puritan paperback series whilst i was in university and then books like r a Torrey and d l moody

It was David Wilkerson that called the current Christian books candy floss

It is hard when the standards are just simply it is is not a cult by Walter martins standard

What would someone like Charles sturgeon think of today’s church,

The thing is we have Jesus himself if he was writing about today’s church would it worse than ladocia

As we are going to meet him

One of the most scariest passages in the scriptures to me is when it talks about the destruction of Jerusalem that it talks about the lord destroyed Jerusalem the same god who opened the Red Sea destroyed Jerusalem

Dominic Shiells

 2019/2/6 5:47Profile

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2157


How can we be doomed if we are in Christ?

If we see ourselves as nothing but a mess what are we saying about the fact that God sees us as a new creation in Christ, holy and acceptable in His sight, having moved past judgment into acquittal and justification?

The old man is such that when he has his way for a while he tries and convince you that that the bad feelings you experience is what you really are. Say NO!

David Winter

 2019/2/6 10:17Profile

Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1831
Hemel Hempstead


This is not an argument about are nature
This is about the fact that judgement begins at the house of god. God is not going to start with the world when he judges it, he is going to start with the church.

1 Timothy
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Paul himself called himself the chief of sinners and he wrote most of the new testament

Isa 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts

Isaiah also said the same thing.

When is the church itself going to realise that unless god does something other than try and change the world through the seven mountain mandate

In England churches are dying, churches are made up of older groups.

We need a true revival and it starts at home.

To me the church looks so much like the world there is no difference.

What I find so sad is that discussing issues like Brexit and things like abortion are abhorrent but when you have abortion in the church there is no leg to stand on.

It is so hard when there is a general population that is extremely antichristian whether you have a right leaning government or a left leaning government as to the average person in the street hates god.

It is God that causes revival I cannot cause him to revive the church in England , god is god.

I do not believe in things like Brexit because i do not believe in globalism but I know in the future that there will be a antichrist who rules on a globalist scale

The only view that non Christians view of the gospel in the west is the prosperity gospel as that what's popular.

I find it crazy it almost like trying to save someone at sea when they are drowning and they have holes in there life boat.

To me it would take a miracle for the church to wake up and I know there is a false church aswell that would probably go with multifaith , ecumenical ,nar, prosperity gospel movement

People are trying to pray for our political leaders or trying to persuade things.
When the general population is evil and I am not surprised when they vote in an evil way.
But when there is no light and salt in the church.

In England where would someone go if they were saved they would probably pick up a prosperity gospel book and there is more chance of getting a bible at Waterstones or download an app than get a bible from a local church .

If England and the church had a revival what type of gospel would they get and would they get a love of the scriptures.

This is what I mean is unless god revives the church we are doomed .

There may be no more evangelism in the high streets as people shop online. Shopping centres will become community zones.

Churches are getting knocked down.

Dominic Shiells

 2019/2/7 5:32Profile

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2157


I hear what you are saying and agree with much of it yet I believe that if our view of the church is negative only then we are missing many of the good things God has and is doing. In spite of increasing wickedness there are many godly things going on in many churches. God's hand is not so short. He always has the 7,000 who have not bowed the knee. Im not trying to pick st you. I just believe there are godly things going on in many churches today. I wonder if the growing apostate church was ever really part of the church. It's as if they have gone out from us to show they really were not part of us to begin with.

David Winter

 2019/2/7 5:54Profile

Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1831
Hemel Hempstead


I never said that there was not godly things going on in the church but has a whole the outlook for the church in the UK where I live is extremely bleak in the future as there will be more Muslims

Prophets like Jeremiah, Ezekiel and other alot of the prophets said very negative things but the difference is those negative things were from the throne room whilst the false prophets said very positive things whilst on the edge of destruction

1 kings 22
10 And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah sat each on his throne, having put on their robes, in a void place in the entrance of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them. note

11 And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron: and he said, Thus saith the LORD, With these shalt thou push the Syrians, until thou have consumed them.

12 And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramothgilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the king's hand.

13 And the messenger that was gone to call Micaiah spake unto him, saying, Behold now, the words of the prophets declare good unto the king with one mouth: let thy word, I pray thee, be like the word of one of them, and speak that which is good.

14 And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, what the LORD saith unto me, that will I speak.

15 So he came to the king. And the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go against Ramothgilead to battle, or shall we forbear? And he answered him, Go, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king.

16 And the king said unto him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou tell me nothing but that which is true in the name of the LORD?

17 And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.

18 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?

19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. note

21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

24 But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?

25 And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself. note

26 And the king of Israel said, Take Micaiah, and carry him back unto Amon the governor of the city, and to Joash the king's son;

27 And say, Thus saith the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I come in peace.

28 And Micaiah said, If thou return at all in peace, the LORD hath not spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, O people, every one of you.

29 So the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah went up to Ramothgilead.

30 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, I will disguise myself, and enter into the battle; but put thou on thy robes. And the king of Israel disguised himself, and went into the battle. note

31 But the king of Syria commanded his thirty and two captains that had rule over his chariots, saying, Fight neither with small nor great, save only with the king of Israel.

32 And it came to pass, when the captains of the chariots saw Jehoshaphat, that they said, Surely it is the king of Israel. And they turned aside to fight against him: and Jehoshaphat cried out.

33 And it came to pass, when the captains of the chariots perceived that it was not the king of Israel, that they turned back from pursuing him.

34 And a certain man drew a bow at a venture, and smote the king of Israel between the joints of the harness: wherefore he said unto the driver of his chariot, Turn thine hand, and carry me out of the host; for I am wounded. note note note

35 And the battle increased that day: and the king was stayed up in his chariot against the Syrians, and died at even: and the blood ran out of the wound into the midst of the chariot. note note

36 And there went a proclamation throughout the host about the going down of the sun, saying, Every man to his city, and every man to his own country.

In this story you have Ahab going to war and God puts a lying spirit in all of the four hundred prophets mouth.

God loved Ahab by sending michaeh to tell him that he will die

Something that ended up negative ended up positive

Who would you trust the person that is going to tell you are going to die in battle which is the truth or the four hundred prophets who lied to you and you ended up dying.

If Ahab listened to michah he could have lived.

Dominic Shiells

 2019/2/7 7:31Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7480


Doc, it appears to me that you are discouraged because of the state of the current church and for good reason. You are not alone.

I look at the political and church scene as it is being reported in social media in the USA and as one who has followed it since I was a young girl, I am appalled at what is going on. Then I remember this scripture: "Do not say, “Why is it that the former days were better than these? For it is not from wisdom that you ask about this." Eccles. 7:10.

I am concluding that God is exposing what has been skillfully hidden by man for many years and we are shocked at what we are seeing. Couple this with Jesus' prophecy that things will get worse in the end times, but this cannot happen unless people are away from God.

My understanding.


Sandra Miller

 2019/3/20 13:54Profile

Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2669
Nottingham, England


Thank you Ginnyrose for bringing some much needed wisdom to this post.

Yes, things are bad here in England.
Yes, churches are closing down. Four have closed in the past year in this city alone.
Yes, the news is going crazy with nothing but bad news.

But, we have God. God is on our side.

As we cry out to Him, He hears and answers.

God is good. Enough said.

 2019/3/21 8:20Profile

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