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Discussion Forum : Miracles that follow the plow : God loves Us but Not Them!

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savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1927


 God loves Us but Not Them!



"If God is for Us then who can be against Us"

Joshua went up from Gilgal, he and all the people of war with him and all the valiant warriors. And the LORD said to Joshua, “Do not fear them, for I have given them into your hands; not one of them shall stand before you.” So Joshua came upon them suddenly by marching all night from Gilgal. And the LORD confounded them before Israel, and He slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and pursued them by the way of the ascent of Beth-horon, and struck them as far as Azekah and Makkedah. And it came about as they fled from before Israel, while they were at the descent of Beth-horon, that the LORD threw large stones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died; there were more who died from the hailstones than those whom the sons of Israel killed with the sword.
Joshua 10:7-11

God loves Us but Not Them! ☺️

 2019/1/28 10:10Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1062
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: God loves Us but Not Them!


Hi Savannah: Couple of ways you can take this post.

You just cant leave it alone can you? You seem to call into question the assumptions made everywhere.

"God loves everyone"...but some he throws hailstones at and kills them. So, trying to reconcile that opens a can of worms...and you don't even care if God gets bad press from it.
"In the New Covenant God doesn't throw stones any more"
Revelation 6, war, famine, plague, death all set loose by way of Jesus himself opening the seals.
This and much more can be added.
As long as you do not read much of your bible, you can believe (as I read in other posts) in pretty much anything so long as your own self-image is bolstered.

If there are cats in a bag...Savannah wants to open the bag.

conversation on this kind of subject is usually limited because it forces you to try and put a cat back in that is now out.

I know it says "God so loved the world" and most everyone will preach it up. But reconciling the tossing of hailstones at God's enemies by God himself...almost no one says a word about it. Things best left alone.


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Marvin

 2019/1/28 14:17Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5185
NC, USA

 Re:

What’s love got to do, got to do with it?


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Todd

 2019/1/28 15:17Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
I know it says "God so loved the world" and most everyone will preach it up. But reconciling the tossing of hailstones at God's enemies by God himself...almost no one says a word about it. Things best left alone.



Or on the other hand, it's a challenge to dig deeper.
The problem could be our truncated concept of “love”, especially God’s love. We assume that loving means doing nice things. So if bad things happen to you God must not love you anymore. Oh, how many people struggle with that assumption!

If we consider the bigger picture, we’d see that because God loves the world (humanity)he won’t let the human race self-destruct through its sinfulness. Judgment is God’s brakes on sin. It’s part of His love.

Surely God’s love was expressed through his preservation of ancient Israel through whom the Messiah would descend? It often meant severe judgment on whatever would destroy Israel (from within or without). Surely, God preserved ancient Israel not because of their worthiness or special status– but because of God’s love to humanity as a whole.

I wonder if we can together craft a new thread title, a different way to read the presenting scripture passage. The current title carries with it the risk of a human propensity: the “Us” vs “Them” worldview. We see ourselves as the ones on God’s side, and the rest are outside of God’s love. Ancient Israel fell into that same propensity – and couldn’t admit that they themselves were on a downhill slide leading to divine judgment. Did judgment mean that God stopped loving them? Of course not! I’d say: Judgment was proof of divine love.
Hebrews 12:4-12 explains how trials are a sign of God’s discipline = Fatherly love.

Surely judgment itself is an act of mercy!

Diane





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Diane

 2019/1/29 8:21Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
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 Re:

Art Katz taught that God loved the Jewish people so much he brought the Holocaust upon them and will do even worse in the future.


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Todd

 2019/1/29 8:50Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
Art Katz taught that God loved the Jewish people so much he brought the Holocaust upon them and will do even worse in the future.


Can you site the source for us? I'm wondering if this was his exact wording.


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Diane

 2019/1/29 9:29Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1125
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Sister Diane

The sermon is called
The God who devastates - Art Katz
It’s here on SI
I remember the first time I heard it.... it was like a boat that had been drydocked- having the barnacles scraped off its hull. It was an uncomfortable, painful truth being put forth by brother Katz. Like being spiritually sandblasted, removing the unnecessary accumulation of worldliness.
It’s been close to ten years since I’ve listened to it, but remember that I couldn’t speak for a while after and my church service later that morning seemed more like a kindergarten class after listening to Art.


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Fletcher

 2019/1/29 9:52Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1927


 Re: “Us” vs “Them”


Diane said,

"The current title carries with it the risk of a human propensity: the “Us” vs “Them” worldview."

-------------

Know ye not, that, the “Us” vs “Them” worldview is strewn throughout the Word of God!

"YOU are of God, little children, and have overcome THEM: because greater is he that is in YOU, than he that is in the WORLD. THEY are of the WORLD: therefore THEY speak from the WORLD, and the WORLD heareth THEM. WE are of God. He that knoweth God, heareth US; he that is not of God, heareth not US. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."
1 John 4:4-7

The above is just one clear sampling of this.

I make no apologies for "the current title" nor "the risk" you mention. For it is no human propensity to present it in such a way,it is the Divine Way in His Own Holy Word.

If I were to apologize, I would have to apologize for the Word of God. No christian would do such a thing.

As for the Hebrews passage you mentioned, you're absolutely right. It does just that, as you say,"explains how trials are a sign of God’s discipline = Fatherly love." The key word there is "Fatherly." We are not ignorant of the fact that God is not Father to all. As Jesus Himself told some, "your father is the devil." And in 1 John 3:10 it's stated,

"By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother."

“Us” vs “Them” worldview:

Children of light vs children of darkness
Children of God vs children of the devil
Sheep vs goats
Sons vs bastards
Saints vs sinners
Called out ones vs the world's ones
Vessels of mercy vs vessels of wrath
Those born of the Spirit vs those born of the flesh
Those whom He foreknew vs those He never knew

Any questions?

“My beloved is mine, and I am his; He pastures his flock among the lilies."
Song of Solomon 2:16




 2019/1/29 10:09Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1062
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Savannah: I do love the fact you have no qualms with letting the word of God speak for itself.


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Marvin

 2019/1/29 11:32Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5185
NC, USA

 Re:

//Can you site the source for us? I'm wondering if this was his exact wording. //

In addition to the sermon Fletcher mentioned, he talked about it in his three part series called “the holocaust.” I am pretty sure it is available on SI.

Art may not have put it in exactly those words but the idea is that God was willing to do it to turn his people.

Now, this raises a whole host of troubling questions, like “didn’t God know it wasn’t going to work, at the cost of 6 million souls?”

It is better for me if I don’t think too long on such questions.


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Todd

 2019/1/29 13:33Profile





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