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Discussion Forum : General Topics : If we do away with reading would we even feel saved ?

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davidkeel
Member



Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 367
From Liverpool but now in West Sussex, England

 If we do away with reading would we even feel saved ?

When I look at some of the posts here it is obvious that we love to read.
Then there is the reading of the Bible, and our believing that if we read enough we will be transformed into Christ's likeness.

But are we just actually growing a false Christ in our lives ? And walking around with what we believe to be the true representation of the closeness of Christ in our conscious mind when it isn't.
Continually reading about the finished work of Christ for us can honestly lead to a false representation of the true Christ. Then we read something about the things Christ said while on the earth. The hard things he said in the sermon on the mount. And also in the book of Revelation. And it shakes us as our relationship could be based on a false version of the Christ.

And we love to read books by people who are exalted by the Christian masses because of their message of grace with no teaching of Christ's desire for us to repent leading to our whole heart being turned over for Christ.

Imagine if we were like Moses or Paul only guided by the spirit of God ? And not by what we had read that morning.
Imagine our false Christ slowly evaporating and our true position of our relationship with God being seen for what it is ?
It would be amazing.


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David Keel

 2019/1/22 7:46Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1039
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: If we do away with reading would we even feel saved ?

Hi David: Of course I would object.

Purely anecdotal but I'll just toss a few things out.

1. Suppress the word of God and you get the dark ages.
2. Replace the word of God and you get superstition
3. Usurp the word of God and you get Roman Catholicism.
4. Ignore the word of God and you get Cults.
5. Twist the word of God and you get heresies
6. Pick and chose the word of God and you get loonies of all sorts.
7. Leave the word of God behind and you have no basis to judge whether you have a relationship with God or not.
8. Supplant the word of God with the Spirit only and you have false Christianity.

These are just of few obstacles to an idea that you've presented. But it's more than my opinion the word of God teaches against your idea.

My scripture text is this.

Jer 23:23 “Am I a God at hand, declares the Lord, and not a God far away? 24 Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the Lord. 25 I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in my name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ 26 How long shall there be lies in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies, and who prophesy the deceit of their own heart, 27 who think to make my people forget my name by their dreams that they tell one another, even as their fathers forgot my name for Baal? 28 Let the prophet who has a dream tell the dream, but let him who has my word speak my word faithfully. What has straw in common with wheat? declares the Lord. 29 Is not my word like fire, declares the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces? 30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, declares the Lord, who steal my words from one another.

So, I repeat..."but let him who has my word speak my word faithfully. What has straw in common with wheat? declares the Lord."

So, I will abide by this and hazard the reading.


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Marvin

 2019/1/22 11:44Profile
davidkeel
Member



Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 367
From Liverpool but now in West Sussex, England

 Re:


Hi Marvin, thanks for the reply. So I was thinking how much our closeness to God is based upon a false notion of soulish feelings that can come from being absorbed with Christian literature and the Bible. which isn't a true reflection of how close we truly are to Christ. But it says "Draw close to God and he will draw close to you. cleanse your hands you sinners and purify your hearts you double minded."

As if to say there is a closer walk of fellowship to be lived.


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David Keel

 2019/1/22 12:05Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5158
NC, USA

 Re:

I understand exactly what you are saying David and I am afraid I have been guilty of allowing much reading to move me away from and not toward Jesus.


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Todd

 2019/1/22 12:31Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1039
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: The Spirit and the Word


Ecclesiastes 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

David: I am a reader, always have been. I learned as a young believer that the bible can be read as a 'litmus test for all things'. Meaning I used it for apologetics or theology or testing the claims of cults or scientific claims. In reading it this way, there is an open avenue for Satanic temptation. Namely, to turn to the bible into a text book to defend ones beliefs or refute others.
I say, this a God-ordained thing. Yet, Satan seizing the opportunity of our flesh begins to pare-off the believer from the relational aspect the scriptures inherently direct us towards.
I also found out, reading the scriptures purely on a devotional level does not allow the Spirit to guide us into doctrinal truth and bible-links necessary to make it coherent to a studious mind.

When I was younger I basically flip-flopped between one or the other as I had need of one or the other. As a young street preacher, I was always confronted with many false teachings, false teachers, errant ideas, erroneous views so with that, I needed the scriptures to guide me into all truth, so that in evangelism/apologetics I was able to confront error with truth. I did this not because I was sacrificing fellowship with God or creating a false image, but because others had false ideas and images of God. Faithfulness to Jesus required me to honor God above men, and as Jesus did, he refuted error with truth, so must I if I am to follow him. So, in effect the appearance is academic/theological looking and didn't have that feel of 'devotional' exposition of scripture.
Then in my private time, the scriptures were all devotional, all instruction in righteousness toward me personally and in many cases heaven-sent comfort-words, corrections and challenges.
Over time, I realized this flip-flopping was artificial, it was simply a mental construct. I realized I never need to sacrifice fellowship on account of academic study, or forsake theology for devotion. I began to link these all together as one unity of thought.
A discerning appeared, namely to recognize satanic attacks by way of mental weariness, a pushing away from prayer or intercessions. In this 'unity' as I call it, I simply and easily refuse to give into prayerlessness, or passive spiritual resistance. I am devoted, all the time and I am all the time studious. I am all the time recognizing ( or should be) temptations to mental strength versus spiritual, reliance upon persuasive argument rather than Holy Spirit revelation.
It takes time, error, victory, loss, insights, discerning, and more time and more experience to learn how God speaks to me, through me and how I am to overcome in the midst of battles whether on discussion forums or on the streets.

The important thing for me, and this is primarily about how I have learned...I never sacrifice fellowship or doctrine, I am to be as Jesus full of truth and full of devotion toward God. The working out of what God has apprehended me for is still 'in the works' but I press on.


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Marvin

 2019/1/22 13:44Profile
davidkeel
Member



Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 367
From Liverpool but now in West Sussex, England

 Re: If we do away with reading would we even feel saved ?

Thanks to both of you for your words.
I was a Christian living a yo-yo life.
Always seeming to be close to Christ but never over coming the sin that the Lord called me to overcome.
But one evening I nearly died. And it catapulted me into a life of full obedience.

It was in doing this that the Lord began to draw close to me.
The real person of Jesus came close to me to remain so I never had any broken fellowship. But the biggest revelation was the amount of falseness I had built up in my soul.



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David Keel

 2019/1/22 14:43Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1857


 Re: If we do away with reading would we even feel saved ?

Continually reading about the finished work of Christ can lead to a false representation of Christ? How so? And reading the Bible too much about this finished work can do the same? I think not knowing enough about this finished work causes many problems in our walk and the Churcb.


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David Winter

 2019/1/22 14:45Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5158
NC, USA

 Re:

“The golden rule for understanding spiritually is not intellect, but obedience. If a man wants scientific knowledge, intellectual curiosity is his guide; but if he wants insight into what Jesus Christ teaches, he can only get it by obedience.”

Oswald Chambers


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Todd

 2019/1/22 15:22Profile
davidkeel
Member



Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 367
From Liverpool but now in West Sussex, England

 Re:

Hi David, I believe it can only be understood when we see how corrupt our own heart is and have had that revealed to us by Christ. It is then that we see the carnal nature of our souls is deceitful in it's extreme. And we recognise the falseness inside us. It is capable of inventing falseness and inventing visions (see below).

When we have that revealed to us there is a genuine fear of God in our hearts.

Jeremiah 23
This is what the Lord Almighty says:
“Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
they fill you with false hopes.

They speak visions from their own minds,
not from the mouth of the Lord.

They keep saying to those who despise me,
‘The Lord says: You will have peace.’


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David Keel

 2019/1/22 15:47Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1857


 Re:

My study of the cross has led me to believe our old carnal nature and our corrupt heart were totally borne by Christ at Calvary and slain. Our focus and identity before God does not revolve around our old nature and the old man. Reckon yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Put off the old man which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts and put on the new man created in righteousness and true holiness. This is what studying and reading about the cross can teach us.

Blessings.


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David Winter

 2019/1/22 19:01Profile





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