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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : How should this affect me as a believer?

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 How should this affect me as a believer?

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18)

Is there a new creation in me that cannot sin because it was born of incorruptible seed (I Peter 1:23)? If so, how should that affect me as a believer? What practical daily results can I experience because of this?

Or as many are normally quick to point out, it doesn't mean you can't sin it means those born of God cannot go on habitually sinning as before they were saved. But is that what the verse says or does it mean Christ in you who is the basis of the new creation cannot sin? Which is it?

I'm going to sin again. I'm sure of that. We have been discussing this lately and it is interesting. But it seems in a way we have been taught that if we can subdue our flesh and make it do right (the hold on with white knuckles club) that we will then be walking in the Spirit. Why shouldn't it be the other way around - if you walk and have faith in the new creation within then you will be better able to crucify your flesh which is the real sinner.

The flesh has not been redeemed yet. It remains as it was but is now living under the promise of eventual redemption and glorification. Until then is there a new creation within me that cannot sin? How can Christ within sin? If so how should it affect me in my walk? Shouldn't our concentration be there so as to then live out better Romans 12:1? Why be constantly be reminded I remain a dirty rotten sinner if there is a sinless new creation within? Shouldn't I be trying to relate to that more even so than outward circumstances?

I'm not pushing the view that we will become perfect in this life. I will sin again but does I John 5:18 mean that the new creation within cannot since it was born incorruptible?
If so shouldn't this be the source of my concentration in my efforts at deeper sanctification and further laying aside sin? But firsf it must be determined what I John 5:18 means.


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David Winter

 2019/1/12 7:47Profile
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 Re: How should this affect me as a believer?

This is from Andrew book - abide

Believer! would you truly and fully abide in Christ, prepare yourself to part for ever from self, and not to allow it, even for a single moment, to have aught to say in your inner life. If you are willing to come entirely away out of self, and to allow Jesus Christ to become your life within you, inspiring all your thinking, feeling, acting, in things temporal and spiritual, He is ready to undertake the charge. In the fullest and widest sense the word life ever can have, He will be your life, extending His interest and influence to each one, even the minutest, of the thousand things that make up your daily life. To do this He asks but one thing: Come away out of self and its life, abide in Christ and the Christ life, and Christ will be your life. The power of His holy presence will cast out the old life.

To this end give up self at once and for ever. If you have never yet dared to do it, for fear you might fail of your engagement, do it now, in view of the promise Christ gives you that His life will take the place of the old life. Try and realize that though self is not dead, you are indeed dead to self. Self is still strong and living, but it has no power over you. You, your renewed nature - you, your new self, begotten again in Jesus death in Christ has freed you completely from the control of self: it has no power over you, except as you, in ignorance, or unwatchfulness, or unbelief, consent to yield to its usurped authority. Come and accept by faith simply and heartily the glorious position you have in Christ. As one who, in Christ, has a life dead to self, as one who is freed from the dominion of self, and has received His divine life to take the place of self, to be the animating and inspiring principle of your life, venture boldly to plant the foot upon the neck of this enemy of yours and your Lord's. Be of good courage, only believe; fear not to take the irrevocable step, and to say that you have once for all given up self to the death for which it has been crucified in Christ (Rom.6:6). And trust Jesus the Crucified One to hold self to the cross, and to fill its place in you with His own blessed resurrection life.

In this faith, abide in Christ! Cling to Him; rest on Him; hope on Him. Daily renew your consecration; daily accept afresh your position as ransomed from your tyrant, and now in turn made a conqueror. Daily look with holy fear on the enemy, self, struggling to get free from the cross, seeking to allure you into giving it some little liberty, or else ready to deceive you by its profession of willingness now to do service to Christ. Remember, self seeking to serve God is more dangerous than self refusing obedience. Look upon it with holy fear, and hide yourself in Christ: in Him alone is your safety. Abide thus in Him; He has promised to abide in you. He will teach you to be humble and watchful. He will teach you to be happy and trustful. Bring every interest of your life, every power of your nature, all the unceasing flow of thought, and will, and feeling, that makes up life, and trust Him to take the place that self once filled so easily and so naturally. Jesus Christ will indeed take possession of you and dwell in you; and in the restfulness and peace and grace of the new life you shall have unceasing joy at the wondrous exchange that has been made - the corning out of self to abide in Christ alone.


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Vern

 2019/1/12 9:16Profile
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 Re: How should this affect me as a believer?

Quote:
But it seems in a way we have been taught that if we can subdue our flesh and make it do right (the hold on with white knuckles club) that we will then be walking in the Spirit. Why shouldn't it be the other way around - if you walk and have faith in the new creation within then you will be better able to crucify your flesh which is the real sinner.



You may be getting at something here. A common view of sanctification is that every part of my life should be holy. But that's not holiness, it's the fruit of holiness. Holiness is Christ. He is the supply for each moments need. He is God's answer to every problem. I think we can increasingly learn to walk this way as we are increasingly aware of our need.

In Christ,


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Ron Halverson

 2019/1/12 13:30Profile
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 Re:

The Bible speaks of God's people growing to spiritual maturity from a seed of life that has been implanted in the soul. We have been "created" in the image of Jesus in holiness and righteousness. At the same time, the Scripture speaks of us dying and the life of Jesus Himself being made manifest through us as we no longer live, but Christ lives in us. These two truths spoken in many different ways in the NT create some questions and confusion. Is there a new me, a new creation that is holy but in infancy that grows and matures into full righteousness and holiness over time, but not completely until death and glorification. Or, is there only me dying daily and Christ in His maturity living through me more and more each day? This seems to be the back and forth discussion about sanctification.

Maybe it is not an OR situation at all. Maybe its an AND sanctification. We surrender to the Spirit's leading and filling and we walk with Christ in the light, in love, in holiness and truth etc. and thus Christ in His character is manifest in us. As we do that, we are also being transformed in character and holiness into the likeness of Christ, our own personal glorification and transformation into true likeness.


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Robert

 2019/1/12 17:44Profile
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 Re:

Thanks for the answers.

Do you all think there is a new creation within us, born of God, created from an incorruptible seed in righteousness and true holiness, that CANNOT sin? That is not a trick question or a gotcha question. It seems when you mention a part of you being born again in Christ that is unable to sin that people shy away. They won't go there because they assume you are speaking of not sinning anymore in your walk when that is not at all what you are saying.


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David Winter

 2019/1/13 15:05Profile
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 Being made free from sin

YES!!! When we are born again we are a NEW creation and the old passes away.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Christ lives in your heart through faith. If you KNOW that God is telling you the truth through these words, and if you receive these words coming into you through faith to be Jesus in Person living inside your heart, then you have been touched by a miracle of God and the power of the Holy Spirit is overshadowing you.

Before we can really "lay hold of Christ" we must know that Christ Himself has already "laid hold of us"! So we are not attempting as person who is not already united with Christ to become united with Him. The reality is that Christ Himself is alive within you this very second. So we need to see that reality before we can believe and trust the person of Christ who is now within. As along as we look at a Christ in heaven, over there, next to us or even within us in a separate compartment we are doomed to failure and defeat.

To "lay hold of Christ" is to realize that His LIFE is really your life - NOW - right this very second. You have HIM now!! You are NOW united with Him. Believe that fact and treat Him as He is - because He is! Lets make this very simple - We can never "come into union with God." Jesus has already come into union with us. You have HIM now!! You are NOW united with Him. Believe that fact and treat Him as He is - because He is!

You can embrace Him NOW because you have been embraced by the Messiah Jesus. You can lay hold of Him because you have been laid hold of by Christ Jesus. He is hugging you and as a result you can hug Him back. He is giving the ability to respond (responsibility) - so just respond back.

Col. 1:12-13, "Giving thanks unto the Father, which has made us qualified to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son."

Eph. 2:4, "But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, has quickened us together with Christ, (by grace you are saved;) And has raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:2, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


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Vern

 2019/1/13 16:01Profile
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 Re:

Actually, the Bible says that we cannot "practice" sin if you look at the context. It's an inclination, nature and disposition that changes. The old nature practices sin because it is inclined to sin as God says. The new nature cannot practice sin. At least that is how Scripture reads.


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Robert

 2019/1/13 16:02Profile
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 Re:

In the same manner, the new nature may not practice sin because it cannot sin.

Thank you for your thoughts.


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David Winter

 2019/1/13 21:54Profile
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 Re: great thread!

Very uplifting and encouraging:)

The new nature/old nature - sin issue was recently explained like this ;
Our “new nature” cannot sin in the same way that an IOS operating system cannot process and act upon input from a PC’s operating system... it literally can’t “compute” it as it’s a wholly different language. And so, it was said, once we are born again we get a new operating system that receives, processes and acts on all commands by Gods input-

Was an interesting analogy that made some sense to me.


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Fletcher

 2019/1/13 22:34Profile
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 Re:

Hi Fletcher.

In Jesus’ time, no computers so He used “good tree / good fruit” and “bad tree / bad fruit “. :)


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Robert

 2019/1/14 2:45Profile





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