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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Keith Green on Universalism

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drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 566
Campbell River, B.C.

 Keith Green on Universalism

"There is a famous preacher today (Keith didn't name him), and the guy has recently been preaching what's called 'Ultimate Reconciliation'; it's a heretical doctrine that teaches that eventually everyone will go to heaven. He's bothered a lot of people with this teaching.

It's just come out that he's been having homosexual encounters with some of his young students. For 20 years he's been having them.

Of course he believes in Ultimate Reconciliation! Of course he believes that hell isn't forever! He needs to believe in a hell like that, because he's living in hell now. He couldn't bear to believe in a hell that lasts forever like the Bible teaches. He found a doctrine that would give him comfort in his sin.

You can bet your Bible that whenever someone believes false doctrine they need to believe that false doctrine to have false peace."


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Nigel Holland

 2019/1/9 21:14Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 999
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: Keith Green on Universalism


Rob Bell, Carlton Pearson...all jumped in on the 'inclusion' trend so no one goes to hell.

In 'Love Wins' Bell being very slippery stayed away from terms like universalism, but the idea was clear and his readers knew what to think.


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Marvin

 2019/1/10 11:24Profile
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1828


 Re:

I used to hear Carlton Pearson from time to time minister in person. He was rich in a real anointing and could preach well and move in the gifts of the Spirit. And was a successful pastor of a large group of saints. Then pow! He had signs very early in life of a genuine calling and loved the Lord from a young age and obeyed God's call. It is grievous and truly makes you wonder how it could happen. I still pray for him when the Lord brings it to mind. I remember at a conference that a group of ministers stood around Carlton and prayed for him to resist temptation and be able to withstand the attacks of the enemy against him. They did so because they recognized the rich and unique anointing on him. It seems that part of Carlton's vexation was what came to be his own emptiness he knew he was in while ministering to thousands. Plus he was worried over the fate of a loved one that had passed and may have not been saved. Then pow! He got his revelation straight from the word supposedly that all were included and saved by Christ's appearing and work and hell is a myth perpetutated by Christians since the early church. It's sad. Father I lift up his soul even now and pray for his redemption from this darkness he has embraced. It is not too late. Bring him out Lord. Bring him out.

I do think at this point we should me more concerned about our loved ones and set aside special times of prayer to pray for them as never before. May the Lord help us to do so.


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David Winter

 2019/1/10 15:19Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 999
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


This is where systematic theology undergirds the sound biblical teacher.

Over time the scripture student begins to connect the dots, he sees the interconnections between atonement and sacrifice link to alienation and sinful mindedness. He sees myriad of biblical truths all woven together.

When one breaks the link between scripture truths, other scripture truths are either negated or minimalized.

Breaking the link of eternal punishment dislocates God's justice and his hatred for sin. It minimizes the gospel call; for in the end, if no one is hell bound, why concern yourself with a crucified Jesus? His sacrifice is relegated to little more than a 'club password'. Oh, I want to be in a church...Ok, well just say I believe Jesus was crucified.
What if I don't? Well you cant join our club. Ok, but will I go to hell for not believing? No, you simply cease to exist.
Oh? Really? So, I could nuke the whole world and I wouldn't suffer so much as a paper-cut? Well, yea but we don't talk so negative about it.

The implications are far beyond the doctrine of eternal judgment. The broken link affects holiness, God's character, Justice, Christ's necessity to be crucified, the purpose of the law.
One broken strand and the whole weave becomes unable to keep itself together.

Heresies are in fact 'another gospel', keeping the biblical gospel pure is to recognize the intent of heresy, we know what that is, it is to remove the God of salvation by removing his word to men.


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Marvin

 2019/1/10 15:43Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 566
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

"The implications are far beyond the doctrine of eternal judgment. The broken link affects holiness, God's character, Justice, Christ's necessity to be crucified, the purpose of the law.
One broken strand and the whole weave becomes unable to keep itself together."

My thoughts exactly.


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Nigel Holland

 2019/1/10 22:37Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 566
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

David, I share your heart. I feel grief for people that have been deceived by this teaching


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Nigel Holland

 2019/1/10 22:44Profile
rjennings
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Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 52
USA

 Re: Keith Green on Universalism

There is so much deception happening right now that it breaks my heart. My pastor stated a couple weeks back “There’s the “spirit you” and the “flesh you” according to Romans 8 and the “spirit you” is pure, holy, and righteous before God. This is the real you and is all that God sees. Therefore, you must remember if you do anything that isn’t of God it’s not the real you, it’s the flesh, and don’t put yourself under condemnation for something that’s not the real you”. Huh??!!???

You may ask why go to this church and sit under such teaching. It’s because I’ve been to most every church within 3 counties from which I live and have found them no different. I initially tried to confront false teachings but found that no one cared and labeled me a trouble-maker. I was told “I am not debating doctrine because it’s doctrine that divides churches”. Divides churches??!!?? I spent almost an entire week crafting a letter to the pastor and fellow leaders in the church expressing this wasn’t simply a matter of the color of the carpet but challenges the foundation of what it means to be a Christian and never received the first response. I left and never returned.

I was asked to teach a men’s Bible study on eschatology at my next stop and was challenged by the pastor as being a heretic. When I asked what passage I took out of context or what was shared that didn’t align with scripture, he repeated something I had said and stated that it isn’t biblical. I read the scripture reference and it was almost verbatim to what I had said. His response was to ask what translation of the Bible I was using. I told him the NKJV. “Well, that’s your issue. Any serious Bible scholar uses the KJV.” I asked “Who has a KJV?” and no one did but I found one in the adjacent room and asked the pastor to read the same scripture and there was no difference. “Pastor, calling someone a heretic is a serious accusation and not one that I take lightly.” He simply responded that if we wanted to know about end times, he could tell us things that would make our hair stand straight. I left and never returned.

One of the greatest Bible teachers I’ve heard in person learned what had happened and called to “help” me and asked that I stop being the “church police” and encouraged me to see the Bible differently as he has. I asked what he meant and his response was in lockstep with Ultimate Reconciliation. “What has happened to you?”, I asked. “I learned that no one was interested in the Bible as we were teaching it so I took all my books, burned them, and started over with just my Bible”. “And, this is what you came up with?”, I asked.

So, I go to church and try to be a light for those around me as I have the opportunity but I no longer cause waves. Do I get frustrated? Of course, but I simply pray and stay as faithful as possible, without grumbling, until He moves me elsewhere or comes back for His people.

I fully understand the current church model can be challenged but if I had a single individual from any fellowship along this journey to care enough to question these happenings or confront me in anything I’ve said, I would be ecstatic. No one did and nothing ever changed. The same people showed up the next service that showed up the last service and the one before that and continued to follow along. “For the love of many will wax cold”…..love for the truth, that is.


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Rick

 2019/1/11 8:21Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1892


 Re: Where in the USA



Rick,

Whereabouts are you in the USA?
Town/City and State?

If you don't want to share this information on the forum, you may email me if you'd like.

BTW... Your experience is not uncommon! Many others have experienced the same or similar.

 2019/1/11 10:15Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 999
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Rick: You said "So, I go to church and try to be a light for those around me as I have the opportunity but I no longer cause waves. Do I get frustrated? Of course, but I simply pray and stay as faithful as possible, without grumbling, until He moves me elsewhere or comes back for His people."

Seriously? I liked you better when you were a voice for truth. What better are you than a universalist if you have decided never to confront it again?

Brother, don't leave your zeal behind be strong in the faith. Our culture has trained all the Christians to treat anyone like a smelly drunk who dares to raise questions on doctrine. Why? Because in the struggle to maintain attendance telling them what they don't want to hear is the same as putting them on a catapult once they leave the Church door.
The first step in being heretical is to make little compromises, don't let your first step be silence to error.


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Marvin

 2019/1/11 11:41Profile
rjennings
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 52
USA

 Re:

Marvin: Great question. After the Bible teacher I mentioned went sideways I struggled mightily. He was the last person I expected of going off course. I prayed earnestly and the Lord spoke to my heart "You've said enough, don't say anymore". I immediately got peace but still asked the Lord for confirmation since it seemed counter to to my convictions. I opened my Bible and landed on Ezekiel 3:36 “And I will make your tongue cleave to the roof of your mouth, that you shall be dumb, and shall not be to them one who reproves: for they are a rebellious house”. I knew it wasn’t meant just for my friend the Bible teacher but the church at large. I know that judgment is coming and am heartbroken over it.

I am not afraid of righteous confrontation – we don’t have enough of it. But until the Lord instructs me to speak again, I will do my best to keep my mouth shut.

Savannah: I live in the back sticks of North Georgia - the middle of the Bible belt :)


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Rick

 2019/1/11 17:23Profile





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