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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Interesting... what do you think?

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JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1058
Dothan, Alabama

 Interesting... what do you think?

Having been focused on “fellowship” for several months now, camped out in John 17 making day trips to other books/passages and looking at various translations I stumbled upon this reference.... wondering if anyone had any thoughts or insights?

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/words/Fellowship


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Fletcher

 2019/1/8 9:05Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 897
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: Interesting... what do you think?


Well if youre the Holman translation group you combine peace offerings and sacrifices to make one single offering a 'fellowship offering'. When I look at other translations they do not combine the two distinct Hebrew words.

To me, this combination is attempting to convey a singular thought when in fact the Hebrew does not seem to license it.

I am NO Hebrew scholar, but looking at those who are, they seem to make a distinction in sacrifice and peace offering, therefore adding another 81 instances of 'fellowship' seems contrived.

In the end maybe not offering the accuracy of Hebrew will spin 'fellowship' in a way that contorts what we already know?


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Marvin

 2019/1/8 9:44Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
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NC, USA

 Re:

I did a quick search of when the term “peace offering” or “fellowship offering” (as in HCSB) first appeared and I did not see where this term is actually defined in scripture. I admit I did not spend tons of time looking.

I was thinking that perhaps “peace offering” might have been defined as a fellowship offering which may solve the dilemma but couldn’t figure out exactly what a peace offering was for.

ADD: Matthew Henry says the peace offering signifies reconciliation, concord and communion, “because in them God and His people did, as it were, feast together, in token of friendship.”


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Todd

 2019/1/8 11:53Profile
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1058
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Thanks guys:)
I’m not that familiar with HCSB translation other than basic info-

However this study the Lord has set me on has been quite fruitful in my walk with Him, and after missing 4 consecutive weeks of church this past Sunday I was able to attend and you wanna guess what my pastor preached on...? Yep- fellowship and even used the same scriptures the Lord has been directing me to study from John 17 to 1John 2 etc... one of the more interesting things was how the Lord has been revealing the correlation between “fellowship with” and “knowing Him” which was precisely the way our pastor preached on it:)))
sure seems like a confirmation of sorts-

I’m def open to any input or teachings someone may have to share?

Another interesting thing the Lord has been showing me is how our fellowship with Him has three readily definable positions that parallel the temple model in the OT - outercourt being an entrance into or the beginning of fellowship- the Inner court being a tabernacling or more intimate level of participation - with the Holy of Holies being like communion :)


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Fletcher

 2019/1/8 14:53Profile
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Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Isn’t that (fellowship with God) what was lost in the fall of Adam... and isn’t that (fellowship with God) what was restored by Christ Jesus and the work of the cross?
Would “walking with God” or “walking in the spirit” signify fellowship or knowing Him?


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Fletcher

 2019/1/10 9:37Profile
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 Re:

What exactly do you mean when you say “fellowship?” Are you taking about a “legal” positional fellowship or more of a relationship type of fellowship?

Christ did restore something, but arguably Moses had deeper fellowship with God than even NT apostles - if you are talking about relationship.

Also- I am curious about your OP and why you referenced all the OTpassages regarding fellowship (or peace) offerings?


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Todd

 2019/1/10 10:20Profile
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 Re:



Hi Fletcher: Fellowship lost in the garden was regained in the garden by means of sacrifice.
Fellowship equaling 'walking with God' is substantiated everywhere in the OT.
God says. walk before me, walk in my statues, walk in my ways, walk in my law, walk uprightly, walk before me in truth etc.
Revelation 3:4

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

From first book to last walking with God is paramount it is part of living according to the law and part of what it is to be a Christian.

Fellowship holds another dimension to walking with God, it connotes friendship.

Walking with God, fellowship is part of our purpose as a man or woman.


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Marvin

 2019/1/10 13:38Profile
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 Re: Brother Todd

Not so much a “legal” but also not so “typical”.... more of a real abiding, intimate, proactive, mutual, living relationship-
Again this is something the Lord has had me focused on, excavating the gold, as it were, with regards to how He views it, the importance He places on it...
the reason, I suppose, that the OT references were included in OP was to instigate responses as to the perpetual desire and efforts (on Gods part) to get us into relationship/fellowship/communion with Him...


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Fletcher

 2019/1/10 17:23Profile
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Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Brother Marvin

Yes this is closer to what He seems to be attempting to get me to see...

An example in the NT -
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost,
The term “communion” used here in KJV is also often translated as “fellowship” - and is defined as;
fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse
the share which one has in anything, participation
intercourse, fellowship, intimacy
the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office)
a gift jointly contributed, a collection, a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship

I guess I’m asking if (perhaps because I had overlooked/underestimated the importance) this is not the point of it all?
Meaning didn’t God create us for this purpose?
Isn’t this what was lost and restored?
Isn’t this what we be doing in heaven?
Isn’t this how He conforms us into the image of His Son?
Isn’t this how we, as the body, operate?
Wasn’t the mystery that was hidden but later revealed, “Christ in us” aka communion/Union with Him?

He had, not so long ago, reminded me of when I had first met/came to faith in Him that in every situation I have a choice to either react to the situation in my flesh (wether good or bad) or respond to Him in faith by the spirit... it occurred to me that I had been cutting Him out of the loop as it were by utilizing my past experiences and biblical knowledge to guide me... but that is really just my flesh! And what He wanted was to be “in the loop” in every matter...
Once this occurred to me, several scriptures came to mind that seem to illustrate this phenomenon of fellowship which is actually obedience by faith through the spirit. The better I get at utilizing the grace He gives me, to keep step, the more consistent my dependence on Him becomes and the habit of “obeying my flesh/law” dwindles. Seemingly this progresses our relationship growing ever more intimate so long as I abide in Him/fellowship till the desired result of communion is not only achieved but done so in such a way so as to preserve itself.
Following Christ, being a disciple, walking with God, walking in the spirit, abiding in Christ, are (for me) being shown to be different facets of or metaphors for or aspects of - knowing Him... which itself IS eternal life per John 17:3... but this “knowing” isn’t a static book knowledge “about” Him but an active participation in a relational “knowing” .
Like when Jesus says; “man shall not live by bread alone but by every word from the mouth of God”. I’m coming to realize that the mechanics of that is actually fellowship... this doesn’t by any means exclude the scriptures but they in themselves do not contain eternal life however this does.
I apologize if this is being somewhat incoherently articulated, I’m still seeking to fully apprehend and as such lack the full clarity that affords simple expression-
Interestingly tho, ALL of my relationships have improved dramatically in almost direct proportion to my understanding that if I respond to Him first, then “wait on the Lord” to give direction- following that by faith. Even when the habit of reacting in my flesh occurs (which it certainly still does) I’m almost immediately made aware of it and with it the deepening desire to draw in closer to Him. Would it be too much to believe that it’s possible to virtually extinguish the fleshy reaction having the spirit so developed so as to be ever mindful of responding to the Lord first?


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Fletcher

 2019/1/10 18:08Profile
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 897
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Fletcher: your post was very well articulated.

What you have written is the best of the best that a believer can attain, a full communion with God, walking in a dependence, hearing of his voice, obedience to his word and freedom to live without the carnal mind pulling us sideways at every turn.
I know this is so true, God revealed this to me some years ago, it has been my experience to walk in it and walk out of it.
In those times that I recognized I was walking in a close communion with God some relationship improved immediately, others flew apart. It causes fear in me, I normally am not a fearful person, but being rejected in so many ways in so many places that I shouldn't be caused me to draw back. To keep silent when I should speak (who would have guessed?)
I have sensed a move of God on my spirit and I don't understand what is happening, but thank God for your encouragement in this, I need it. There are some spiritual truths youve shared that are so easily misunderstood, and the misunderstanding will arise from the mind not in step with the Holy Spirit's leading.

Edit to add: this 'fellowship' or communion in the Holy Spirit brings with it a two-edged sword. The necessity to die to self is always foremost when you are being led of the Spirit. There is always a new death awaiting and to no surprise a new vitality in our walk with God. As you said, a body of biblical head knowledge cannot be exchanged for it. It is such a blessing to recount the 'supernaturalness' to serving Jesus in such a way.


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Marvin

 2019/1/11 22:47Profile





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