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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Spirit, Soul, Body?

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BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 453
Australia

 Re:

William,

(1)

The meanings of the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats and the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus are not given in the Bible. Interpretations by men are hugely influenced and limited by their own theology and depth of their own biblical knowledge and understanding. On the other hand, scriptures like “In Christ all are made alive” and “It is God’s will for all men to be saved” are plain and clear.

I will say honestly that I do not fully understand the meanings of these two parables myself. But, some thoughts ---


PARABLE OF THE SHEEP AND THE GOATS (MATT. 25:31-46)

This parable concerns “nations”.

It is about what they did or did not do for “these brothers of Mine” i.e. brothers of Jesus – gave or did not give them something to eat when they were hungry, gave or did not give them something to drink when they were thirsty, invited or did not invite them in when they were strangers, clothed or did not clothe them when they were naked, visited or did not visit them when they were sick or in prison.

Just a thought:
Even believers can be guilty as the goats.

Matt. 25:46 –
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Comment:

The word “eternal” is the Greek word αἰώνιον (aiōnion) (Strong’s NT 166) derived from αἰών (aiṓn) (Strong’s NT 165) meaning a space of time or age. Whether you believe this age is one of a series of ages stretching to infinity or if this age in itself is never ending depends on your theology.

The word “punishment” is the Greek word κόλασιν (kolasin) (Strong’s NT 2851). Zodhiates’ “The Complete Word Study Dictionary – NT” describes this word as conveying “the notion of punishment for the correction and bettering of the offender”. But, again, if your theology cannot accept this definition for Matt. 25:46, then you will interpret it as vindictive punishment that is forever.


Food for thought:

Lev. 6:8-13 –
………This is the law for the burnt offering: the burnt offering itself shall remain on the hearth on the altar all night until the morning, and the fire on the altar is to be kept burning on it………The fire on the altar shall be kept burning on it…… Fire shall be kept burning continually on the altar; it is not to go out.

Comment:
The burnt offering is a fire offering of a pleasing aroma to the LORD (Lev. 1:17). It is a precious offering to God.



PARABLE OF LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN LUKE 16:19-31)

Just a comment:

The rich man, I would say, points to the Pharisee who were lovers of money (v.15), and justified themselves in the sight of men, “but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God” (v.15). Pharisees were strict adherents of the Law and prided themselves on keeping a plethora of external requirements that can be seen and praised of men while their hearts were far from God.

I would say a Christian can be this rich man too.

So, do be sure that you do not wake up in eternity and……horror of horrors(!)……find yourself in hell and………there is no way out!!


The Lord Jesus said this,

John 15:5-6 –
"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”


(2)

You wrote:
“Salvation is "In Christ" and is offered to human beings NOW, while on earth, in this age of grace”

Eph. 2:7 –
so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.


You asked:
“Why preach the gospel then?”

Why?

Because the way into God’s presence in the Most Holy Place has been opened for all mankind.

“Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes, and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest” (John 4:35).

Why?

Because the Lord Jesus commands us to.

Matt. 28:18:20 –
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Why?

Because we bring good news of great joy that shall be for all the people (Luke 2:10). We are opening their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Christ (Acts 26:18).

Why?

Because at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Phil. 2:10-11).


You asked:
“Why have a set apart people?”

Because God is calling out a people to be God’s New Jerusalem that is illumined by the glory of God and having a brilliance like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal (Rev. 21).

And in the ages of eternity to come,

Rev. 21:24 –
The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.




LAST WORD

It is an impasse, as it often is.

You will go away continuing to believe what you believe.

I will continue to search the Scriptures to determine “whether these things are so” (Acts 17:11) and be willing to discard what I have been told and stand on what the Scriptures say even if no one goes with me.


Let us pray.

Let us pray for the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth (John 16:13).

And as Paul exhorts, let us pray, NOT just for family and loved ones, BUT, for ALL men, for it is God’s will for ALL men be saved (1 Tim. 2:1-6).

Not our will, Heavenly Father, but Yours be done. Amen.




Note:
This is my last post here. I am leaving this thread before this discussion gets unpleasant and hostile and Greg has to step in to lock it.



God bless all.





_________________
Jade

 2019/1/11 1:37Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 897
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Wow Jade, I didn't know you were a universalist? Or dabbling in it?

The 'all' of 1 cor 15:22 are contingent upon belief in Christ. Isolating an "all" text without considering the remainder is how error begins.
The "all" that die in adam are contingent upon remaining in unbelief.
If 'all' die in Adam, then no one is saved. But we know better, Christ has come so in Adam "all don't die". Some are made alive.
Christ makes 'all' alive, but not all are made alive because 'all' have not believed for not all men have faith.

If you interpret it in the wooden fashion you did, then you get your universal reconciliation at the expense of undermining the whole gospel. Why bother repenting and believing when in the end you will be saved.
So, no matter what, live like Charles Manson...it's ok, in the end you will be in as good a situation as the apostle Paul.
There is no danger at all in 'unbelief' or 'sin' or 'blasphemy' because according to your warped interpretation these damnable characteristics are granted equal access to the Throne of a Holy God.

Unless you've also devised a method of sanctification, justification, redemption after one has been judged? Or maybe that has been sacrificed too?


_________________
Marvin

 2019/1/11 16:56Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 897
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Where is that text that validates 'all' will be alive in Christ? Well, since the topic of 1 cor 15 is the resurrection, I'll page over to John 5.
What does John say...
Joh 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Joh 5:27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
Joh 5:29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Wow, I see it 'all' will hear, that means he will make them alive...shoot I missed it again...wait, I'll read a little farther down. "those who have done good to the resurrection of life,", well Jade's right on that one...
then,"and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." Hold the presses, stop the clock, a resurrection to condemnation? Judgment? Damnation? So, while Christ does make all alive, those who have done evil will be damned even though they were 'resurrected'.
This does not sound like reconciliation, this sounds exactly like denunciation and condemnation.

So Paul in his generality concludes 'all' will be made alive
but that 'all' does not mean everyone, it means those who have believed will be made alive and stay alive. They live in the presence of God and will partake of the tree of life.

Evidently there is a resurrection that does not deliver from the second death, it in fact delivers some TO the second death.

So, if I had to concede to Jades interpretation of all meaning all=everyone I'd have to go with it. But, in being right about that, I find the 'all' are not eternally reconciled, to the contrary many are eternally divided and as such instead of universal reconciliation I find reconciliation based upon belief in the gospel while we live in our mortal bodies.
A Resurrection to damnation is hardly reconciliation, it's judgment and a punishment for 'evil'.

In this resurrected state such a man appears before the great white Throne, here evil receives its reward...which is not reconciliation but eternal suffering.

So in my first posting I simply claimed certain conclusions, in this post I show why I made them.

Now, I know the use of the term 'fire' can be thought of as a purifying thing, removing the dross etc. But, the fires of hell and the second death do not purify, purge and make a man ready for heaven, that work is assigned to the Holy Spirit as he indwells his people. The fires of hell are for punishment they are there to destroy the man or woman. We find no text where anyone emerges from the lake of fire a ready recipient for heaven. If that were the case, you could make the case for Satan, the beast the false prophet will also emerge purified and ready to partake of the tree of life.
But no such hope is offered anywhere for men or women in such a place.

My conclusion is to refuse the errant universal reconciliation, and remain in the truth where hell is real and the lake of fire burns and both of them are expected to receive wicked men and women.


_________________
Marvin

 2019/1/11 22:19Profile





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