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savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 WICKED MEN USEFUL IN THEIR DESTRUCTION ONLY




Therefore if man be not made to serve and glorify his Creator, it is wholly to no purpose that such a creature is made. Doubtless then the all wise God, who doth all things in infinite wisdom, hath made man for this end. And this is agreeable to what he hath taught us in many places in the scriptures. This is the great end for which man was made, and for which he was made such a creature as he is, having a body and soul, bodily senses, and rational powers. For this is he placed in such circumstances as he is, and the earth is given him for a possession. For this he hath dominion given him over the rest of the creatures of this world. For this the sun shines on him, and the moon and stars are for signs and seasons to him, and the rain falls on him, and the earth yields him her increase.

All other ends of man are subordinate to this. There are inferior ends for which man was made. Men were made for one another; made for their friends and neighbors, and for the good of the public. But all these inferior ends are designed to be subordinate to the higher end of glorifying God; and therefore man cannot be actively useful, or actively answer any purpose, otherwise than by actively glorifying God, or bringing forth fruit to God.

Read the full sermon by clicking on the link;

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3369

 2018/12/11 10:51Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1165
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: WICKED MEN USEFUL IN THEIR DESTRUCTION ONLY


Savannah: I've read this sermon 3-4 times now. I have Edwards complete sermon set at home.

There is scarcely 1 in a hundred Christians (generally speaking) that would even read a sermon like this and think to use it in their own witness, study, bible study or preaching.

His more famous sermon 'sinners in the hands of an angry God' has the same effect, they say "I don't believe in a God like this".

You would catch more fish if you modified the sermon somewhat...'PRETTY GOOD PEOPLE GET TO HEAVEN SOMEHOW'.
All you would need do is reverse everything Jonathan E. said and use the current buzzwords in our culture.

But then again...you might actually help more people into destruction than warn them away from it.


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Marvin

 2018/12/11 11:16Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

<<Paradox sensor on overload>>


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Todd

 2018/12/11 11:32Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1165
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: I'll take a lightly toasted sermon, with jam

Ive heard more than a few preachers apologize before starting in on a sermon about hell or judgment.

They do this because they know the subject is supposed to make Christians look bad, and especially make God look bad.
The difficulty seems to stem from a complete absence of preaching on God's judgments, justice, lake of fire. Sinful man's default pathway to it and their propensity to avoid talking about it is strictly kept. Lets talk about marriage, some sentimental ideas about sacrifice or maybe even about some ole grandma who prayed a lot.

Then lets talk about some sports figure who claims to believe in Jesus...and how he suffers for the faith in the face of the media trying to defame him.

Lets' talk about patience when the car breaks down or when the husband get mad in the car...those are always good for a laugh and ribbing by the wife.

If you're in a men's retreat, the best sermon there is starts with "how to". How to read the bible somewhat regularly. How to be patient with the kids, How to be a good worker, How to not cuss, complain or drink too much with Christian friends.
And the most important one "How to manage your Christian identity among other Christian men".

Bringing your bible...optional
Bringing a spirit of prayer...no
Bringing a desire for worship and intercession...a hindrance to the meeting, leave that at home.

Nah, why would we ever want to hear a sermon like 'the wicked are useful in their destruction only'. That kind of sermons needs to be left in the 18th century where it was preached. Today, too many a sermon is a just a selfie with all our friends laughing and smiling behind us.

Savannah doesn't know he's an anachronism.

What we need is a mixture of Pastor Joel, Tony Robbins, Ophra Winfrey and Dr Oz. We need lullaby's.

Edit to add/// if you preach anything like Edwards you can watch the congregation drop by a power of ten. If you have 40, you will have 4 in a short while. If you have 400, you will have 40. No pastor wants to send all of his sheep down the street where they can hear "7 ways to a better you" when he could have preach it himself.


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Marvin

 2018/12/11 13:52Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
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 Re:

Well to to be truthful the average pew sitter today would not understand the language Jonathan Edwards uses or his style of speaking. If the sermon was preached today we would need an updated version.


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Todd

 2018/12/11 14:06Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: understanding



To be truthful the average pew sitter today isn't on SI.


How about yourself Todd, do you understand it?

 2018/12/11 15:53Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

I do dontcha know. Even cotton to ol’ KJV English ‘n sich.


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Todd

 2018/12/11 17:49Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: anachronism 101



Marvin said,

"That kind of sermons needs to be left in the 18th century where it was preached."

___________


There was a time
Not long ago...

Marvin, you're absolutely right. Your post is spot on.

Men like Edwards, and those who went and heard him, were reverent toward God.

So very much unlike those today. They'll hear or read a sermon such as this, and have no more to say other than it is outdated in some way.

They will use some mild mockery, making light of such a sobering message, speaking in a casual manner of it being hard to understand.

But such men are the majority, and are encouraged and applauded as they tone down the seriousness of sin and the judgment to come upon the lukewarm seated in the church pews each Sunday morning having their ears tickled and then tickling their fellow pewmen.

But,

Because I have called and you refused to listen,have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded,because you have ignored all my counsel and would have none of my reproof,
I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when terror strikes you,
when terror strikes you like a storm
and your calamity comes like a whirlwind,
when distress and anguish come upon you.
Then they will call upon me, but I will not answer;they will seek me diligently but will not find me.Because they hated knowledge
and did not choose the fear of the LORD,
would have none of my counsel and despised all my reproof,therefore they shall eat the fruit of their way,and have their fill of their own devices.
For the simple are killed by their turning away,and the complacency of fools destroys them;but whoever listens to me will dwell secure and will be at ease, without dread of disaster.” - Proverbs 1










 2018/12/11 20:34Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re: WICKED MEN USEFUL IN THEIR DESTRUCTION ONLY

Don’t y’all see the paradox? Surely you must.

Edwards rails against man’s failure to make glorifying God preeminent (as he should) but in his system God Himself denies men the ability to make glorifying God preeminent.

Edwards sermon is absolutely spot on, but when you add in that little tidbit it sort of removes the luster.

Don’t you see the ridiculousness of scolding men for something God prevents them from doing?


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Todd

 2018/12/11 21:03Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: wrong again 6 years later


Here in this thread today you say,

"...God Himself denies men the ability..." and,

"...God prevents them from doing?"

6 years ago, replying to another Edwards sermon you say,

"Eternal punishment for temporal crimes seems unjust even by God's stated standards of justice (an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth). A debt or penalty that takes forever to repay will never be fully repaid, and there can never be any final justice or resolution of the problem of sin in the universe."

And in the same thread from 6+ years ago you go on to say regarding the traditional view of hell,

"And once again, I am not insisting that the traditional view is not correct. All I am suggesting is that it MAY not be correct. There is a huge difference."

________________

I say to you, that yes, there is a huge difference.

The huge difference is between saying,

"you shall surely die."

And,

"Hath God said you shall surely die?"

The huge difference is the subtlety of the serpent, as he slanders God. The devil lives up to his name, i.e "slanderer", as he casts doubt upon the Goodness of God.

You've done the same today, as you did 6+ years ago.

The devil has been doing this 6000+ years.

JESUS asks in Matthew 20:15;

"Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?"

Your own understanding of it all, is not the determiner of God's goodness.

It's settled in Heaven! God is good period!

If He commands the slaughter of the first born...He is good!

If He commands the slaughter of men, women and children...He is good!

If He says to one, "it'd been better for him that he'd never been born", and to another, "I've prayed for you"...He is good!

If He saves 8 people or 8 billion people...He is good!

If He saves fallen man and not fallen angels...He is good!

Be Job-like; "“Behold, I am insignificant. How can I reply to You? I place my hand over my mouth. I have spoken once, but I have no answer—twice, but I have nothing to add.” Job 40:4,5

 2018/12/11 23:40Profile





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