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ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Andrew Murray-Walking in the Spirit

Men often speak of crucifying the flesh as a thing that has to be done. Scripture always speaks of it as a thing that has been done, an accomplished fact. 'Knowing, this, that our old man was crucified with Him.' 'I have been crucified with Christ.' ' They that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh.' ' The cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world.'

What Christ, through the Eternal Spirit, did on the cross, He did not as an individual, but in the name of that human nature which, as its Head, He had taken upon Himself.

Every one who accepts of Christ receives Him as the Crucified One, receives not only the merit, but the power of His crucifixion, is united and identified with Him, [b]and is called on intelligently and voluntarily to realize and maintain that identification.[/b] ' They that are of Christ Jesus' have, in virtue of their accepting the crucified Christ as their life, given up their flesh to that cross which is of the very essence of the person and character of Christ as He now lives in heaven; they ' have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.'


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/7/5 15:53Profile









 Re: Andrew Murray-Walking in the Spirit

you wrote

Quote:

"What Christ, through the Eternal Spirit, did on the cross, He did not as an individual, but in the name of that human nature which, as its Head, He had taken upon Himself."


This is 100% true but it seems so few actually walk and enjoy all that Christ did.

Is is lack of faith, lack of knowing or both?

 2005/7/5 16:02
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Seeing the beginning from the end

Quote:

freecd wrote:
Is is lack of faith, lack of knowing or both?

The word know in the greek for the knowing we are talking about is [i]ginosko[/i]. Vines has this to say: In the NT ginosko frequently indicates a relation between the person "knowing" and the object known; in this respect, what is "known" is of value or importance to the one who knows, and hence the establishment of the relationship, e.g., especially of God's "knowledge," 1 Cor. 8:3, "if any man love God, the same is known of Him;" Gal. 4:9, "to be known of God;" here the "knowing" suggests approval and bears the meaning "to be approved;" so in 2 Tim. 2:19; cp. John 10:14,27; Gen. 18:19; Nah. 1:7; the relationship implied may involve remedial chastisement, Amos 3:2.

The same idea of appreciation as well as "knowledge" underlies several statements concerning the "knowledge" of God and His truth on the part of believers, e.g., John 8:32; 14:20,31; 17:3; Gal. 4:9 (1st part); 1 John 2:3,13,14; 4:6,8,16; 5:20; [b]such "knowledge" is obtained, not by mere intellectual activity, but by operation of the Holy Spirit consequent upon acceptance of Christ.[/b] Nor is such "knowledge" marked by finality; see e.g., 2 Pet. 3:18; Hos. 6:3, RV.

I think also that many times the light goes on, as in revelation, but there is a lack of understanding in how it fits together to = a life to be lived as you mentioned.

The issue of a lack of faith is an intresting one, which I am sorry to say, is not going to be in this post, its late. :-(


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/7/5 16:25Profile
Joshua99
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 118
Austin Tx.

 Re: Andrew Murray-Walking in the Spirit

Quote:
Men often speak of crucifying the flesh as a thing that has to be done. Scripture always speaks of it as a thing that has been done, an accomplished fact


ZekeO
I believe you are misunderstanding what Paul and Peter are saying about the flesh. Look at Romans 8:12,13
Rom 8:12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
That is exactly what Paul is saying in Galatians 5:24
Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus HAVE crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. They who belong to Christ-believers- have the responsibility by the power of the Holy Spirit to put to death-render powerless- our flesh , so the spirit is in control, meaning the Spirit of God is in control by our surrender of all we are. This is why Paul again says..

2Co 7:1 Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.
2Co 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.
2Co 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
2Co 10:6 being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.
There are so many scriptures I can show you, that will confirm again and again

2Pe 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,
2Pe 1:6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
2Pe 1:7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
2Pe 1:8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.
2Pe 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
Why else would Jesus say to us..

Mat 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

I have victory over my flesh because of the Blood of Jesus and the Power of the Spirit Of God who Abides within me. He leads me place to place to offer myself as a living sacrifice, confess my sins and cry out that Jesus will be Lord over the area, where my flesh has controlled me, I have been freed from Achohol, drugs, pornagraphy, immorality, smoking, anger. Thes areas I have victory , because the Lord has shown me from the scriptures, I have to choose, by His Grace to lay these things before Him, in order to be free from the power of them.
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
James 4:8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Then remain in His Word and His Presence by Faith which is my deliverence and true freedom. This one topic of the Truth, I have known , I have struggled with, back sliddened and now in the last 5 years of my almost 26 years walking with God, I am walking in the Spirit, by humbling myself under God loving Hands, obeying the Truth, which puts to death the flesh and its deeds, passions and desires. All provision has been supplied because of Our Lord's Great Sacrifice. We become Sons when we grow up and that requires death to self-the old man..
Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Col 3:6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming.
Col 3:7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them.
Col 3:8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices
Col 3:10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.
Col 3:11 Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience.
I say this to help you and others who read these posts to steer you to the Truth in God's Word. Blessings in His Name
:-)


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Bryan

 2005/7/5 23:33Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 I may be missing something

Hello Joshua99,

I am sorry but it appears that we are saying the same thing....I think? :-?

Are we?


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/7/6 0:24Profile
JakeforJesus
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Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 43
Dallas, Texas

 Re: Andrew Murray-Walking in the Spirit

Hi, Zekeo.

You said:

"Men often speak of cruifying the flesh as a thing that has to be done. Scripture always speaks of it as thing that has to be done, an accomplished fact."

At one time my theology was all built on a once-for-all experience of the cross, which I believe is perfectly correct and theological.

However, does it exhaust it? (smiling)

In Saint Paul's epistle to the church in Rome, he says:

"We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmites of the weak, and not please ourselves" (Romans 15:1)

Paul says, "We ought not to pleaee ourselves."

Do you know what I have learned?

I've learned that every time I do anything effective for God that's acceptable to Him, I begin by not pleasing myself.

I've discovered this is an invarible rule:

"Every time I'm pleasing myself, I'm doing nothing that's worth anything to God."

The first thing I've got to do is to deny myself.

This ego in me that is always asserting itself, saying, "I want, I wish, I feel, I think . . . " has got to be denied. I have to say, "No!"

There's no problem about what it means to deny ourselves, to deny ourselves is to say "no" to ourselves.

If I don't say "no" to myself and keep saying "no" to myself, I can not lead a Christian life.

I cannot be a self-pleaser and a Christ-pleaser. It's impossible.

These are the words of the Lord Jesus in Luke 9:23:

"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me [this is absolutely universal], let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."

What is the first time thing we do when we decide to follow Jesus?

The first step. Let him do what?

Deny himself.

We cannot begin to follow Jesus until we make that decision.

And then it goes on, "And take up his cross daily."

I never liked that word "daily."

For a long while I steered around that verse in Luke 9, because I knew another verse, it doesn't put the "daily" in. (smiling)

It's Matthew 16:24 where the same words are used, but without the "daily."

As I had earlier mentioned at one time my theology was all built on the once - for - all experience of the cross, which I believe to be perfectly correct and theological. But it doesn't exhaust it.

And here in Luke 9:23 Jesus sneaks in that little "daily." (smiling)

I don't say that irreverently.

"Let him take up his cross daily . . ."

I believe every day presents every Christian with an opportunity to take up his cross.

If we use the opportunity, we have a victorious day. If we lose the opportunity, we have a day of defeat.

But what is our cross?

I heard someone once say it is this:

"Your cross is where your will and the will of God cross."

Our cross is the thing on which we can die.

It's the place where we can lay down our life.

When Jesus went to the cross He said:

"No man taketh my life from me. I have power to lay it down, I have power to take it up."

In this sense, no one will take our life from us. If we don't voluntarily lay it down, we'll still be in control of it.

Once I heard I heard a brother say that his wife was his cross. LOL.

But the only way she could be, would be if he had power to lay her down and take here up day by day. So I say, no, brother. Your cross is not your wife. (smiling)

Nor is it the sickness someone may have either, in which they did not choose and cannot be healed of.

Our cross is the place where we can make the decision not to please ourselves.

In my own experience I could tell you how, time after time when I've had the inner struggle and made the right decision, blessing follows.

Then -- and not until then -- can I really help others for the Lord. I cannot as long as I am pleasing myself.

The old ego in me has nothing to give to anybody. He has to be dealt with before the ministry of God can flow out of my life.

And Jesus reminds us in Luke 9:23 that:

"We need to do it every day."


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J.C.

 2005/7/6 1:17Profile
Joshua99
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 118
Austin Tx.

 Re: I may be missing something

not quite, We have to crucify the flesh, not our Lord from the cross.


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Bryan

 2005/7/6 1:27Profile
JakeforJesus
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 43
Dallas, Texas

 Re: Maybe missing something

Hi, Joshua99.

Whose cross did Jesus tell us to take up?

His Cross or our cross?

Of course, when we come to faith in Jesus, we embrace what the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross had accomplished for us.

But when Jesus told us to take up our cross, and to do it daily. He wasn't telling us to take up His Cross. We cannot take up His Cross, He told us to take up our cross.


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J.C.

 2005/7/6 2:07Profile









 we are dead in Christ

You do not have to try to die, it is an established fact!!

Your job is to completely rest in this fact!!

Rom. 6:1-11 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Don’t you know, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Go to http://www.victoryoversin.com/wnbelieve.htm to read

Why Do You Not Believe? by Andrew Murray

 2005/7/6 9:24
JakeforJesus
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 43
Dallas, Texas

 Re: we are dead in Christ

It should be realized that there are two main aspects of the cross: Firstly, there is what the cross has done for us. Secondly, there is what the cross must do in us.

Yes, our old man has been put to death in Christ on the cross. However, the problem is that we have to keep him dead, by dragging him (our old man) back to the cross. For as long as we are in the world, as for this bodily life. We are going to have to daily wrestle with our old fleshly nature.


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J.C.

 2005/7/6 10:29Profile





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