SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Miracles that follow the plow : SURPRISE...SURPRISE!!!

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )
PosterThread
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 186
Cambodia

 Re:

Todd,

God gave permission to Satan to destroy righteous Job’s life.

God gave permission to Satan to sift beloved Peter like wheat.

God gave Satan permission to put a debilitating thorn in the side of faithful Paul.

God gave permission to Satan to martyr the true saints of a church in Revelation.

He has sent deceiving spirits into King’s and counselors of God’s people.

He caused a man to be blind from birth and for 30-40 years thereafter all so He could show His glory in that man’s life after 40 years of suffering and because of no sin in the man.



Are you ok with that God?


_________________
Robert

 2018/12/5 10:20Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 4968
NC, USA

 Re:

Sure am.


_________________
Todd

 2018/12/5 10:28Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1947
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
If a master chess player takes a mallet to his chess pieces because he made a bad move, we might find it humorous but obviously we know it was not the chess pieces’ fault that he didn't move them properly.



Speaking of chess, I have two more scenarios for consideration.

Scenario 1: Imagine I sat down to play chess with myself and made every move on both sides of the board, ensuring that a particular side won in the end.

Scenario 2: Imagine I played chess against Bobby Fischer and beat him due to my anticipation of his every move.

Again, which is more impressive? Yet some would have us think that God makes all the moves when it comes to every human decision in the history of the world. In other words, they would have us believe that it is God Himself who ultimately makes every decision and that there is no such thing as human autonomy, like Piper asserts in the OP article.


_________________
Oracio

 2018/12/5 10:44Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 186
Cambodia

 Re:

Let me give you a scenario from the Bible. Pharaoh is proud. God knows full well that if He commands Pharoh to let His people go that Pharoh will do exactly what Pharoh wants do and, in a predetermined sense, Pharoh at the same time will be doing exactly what God wills and plans for him to do. So God plans for Pharoh’s sin, He gives the good and right command that
stirs the sinful pride in Pharoh’s heart and then, punishes Pharoh severely for the sin God excited through the command.

Or,

God wants David to number his troops so that God can punish Israel severely. So He has Satan incite David to number the troops in spite of God’s clear command not to. The Holy Spirit speaking about that event says that both God and Satan incited David to do that which in one sense God did not desire but in another sense or different level is exactly what God wanted David to do. In all this man was responsible but God directed the events by steering the hearts in a certain direction.

This is indisputable from Scripture and is a truth about God that is not derived from philosophy or metaphors but is His own declaration of His ways with man.


_________________
Robert

 2018/12/5 10:55Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1828


 Re: kings and queens and guillotines



The master chess player analogy opens wide the thoughts that one has of The Almighty.

Just another piece of the image that has been erected in the mind. And now this god is the god you're comfortable with.

The other pieces of this god we have thus far is the piece that annihilates, and the piece that doesn't know all, only some, future events. Reason being is that those events are not reality as yet, or because this god limits his knowledge of such.

Maybe you can write a book about this god. Maybe it'll go viral, or be on the best seller's list. You may want to place it in close proximity on the shelf next to the Book of Mormon.

I used a small "g" because the words,language and definitions don't really mean much anyhow. It's just a matter of each one's own interpretation. Sounds like fun!

Hey...and it may even be profitable too! You never know, just look where J. K. Rowling is now. You can even make a series, since the future is unknown anyway. You can just make it up as you go with your own freewill, I mean freestyle, writing.

You go boy! Just do it.

All American! A declaration of independence of sorts.

See you at the next Star Wars conference, or movie, whichever one comes first.



 2018/12/5 11:30Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 4968
NC, USA

 Re:

If I write that book, it will be God making me write it, according to you. He will even be moving my fingers on the keyboard, and will even cause me to make the typos!

So if I write that book you can blame God, not me.


_________________
Todd

 2018/12/5 11:38Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1947
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Hi Robert, you wrote:

Quote:
Let me give you a scenario from the Bible. Pharaoh is proud. God knows full well that if He commands Pharoh to let His people go that Pharoh will do exactly what Pharoh wants do and, in a predetermined sense, Pharoh at the same time will be doing exactly what God wills and plans for him to do. So God plans for Pharoh’s sin, He gives the good and right command that
stirs the sinful pride in Pharoh’s heart and then, punishes Pharoh severely for the sin God excited through the command.


Many of us would disagree with your interpretation of that account. We would argue, based on certain other scriptures, that it was Pharaoh who was fully responsible for allowing his own heart to get hardened against God and that the opportunity to repent was set before him on numerous occasions, and that God simply “judicially” hardened him (i.e. allowed him to get hardened on account of his prior willful stubbornness and refusal to repent). There are other scriptures which state that it was Pharaoh who hardened his own heart (Ex. 8:15, 32). So which is it? Did God harden Pharaoh or did Pharaoh harden himself against God? We would argue that God withdrew His mercy and allowed Pharaoh to harden himself on account of his own willful rebellion. I’d argue that that interpretation seems to fit the overall biblical picture better and fully keeps intact the revealed character and holiness of God without any contradiction.

Quote:
God wants David to number his troops so that God ca punish Israel severely. So He has Satan incite David to number the troops in spite of God’s clear command not to. The Holy Spirit speaking about that event say that both God and Satan incited David to do that which in one sense God did not desire but in another sense or different level is exactly what God wanted David to do. In all this man was responsible but God directed the events by steering the hearts in a certain direction.



Again, it is not necessary to interpret that account in that manner. When we read in 2 Sam. 24:1 that God “moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah,” we must understand it as God allowing Satan to tempt David as a judgment against both David and Israel as a whole (1 Chron. 21:1). In other words, God sometimes removes his mercy, grace and intervention and allows for certain evils to occur as a judgment. James 1:13-15 clearly teaches, “God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.”

In other words, it is one thing for God to allow or permit evil actions and/or evil decisions to be made while being in complete control, and to use those same actions to accomplish His ultimate plans or purposes, and it is quite another for God to “do” or “perform” those evil actions Himself. The latter would implicate God imo because the whole of Scripture is abundantly clear that God cannot commit or "do" or "perform" any sin.

Quote:
This is indisputable from Scripture and is a truth about God that is not derived from philosophy or metaphors but is His own declaration of His ways with man.



It is true that our reasoning and philosophies must conform to Scripture and not the other way around. But we must acknowledge that we do in fact have God-given reasoning capabilities which are to be employed in a God-honoring way. Over and over we read throughout Scripture that God wants us to use our God-given reasoning abilities to consider His ways and His purposes for our lives.

One more scripture I’ll point out here. Jeremiah 32:35 says, “And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.”

Of course, in my view, God in His omniscience foreknew (knew beforehand) that that abomination would occur. Yet it was not the intention of His heart in His plans for Judah for them to commit such abominations. Again, it’s the difference between God permitting something and God Himself doing the same.


_________________
Oracio

 2018/12/5 12:09Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1828


 Re: in the writing of many books there's grief




Even I, an immortal mortal, know the future.

No ifs about it. You, will write no book!

You can bank on it.

If Eu-genie could have 3 wishes granted him, methinks he'd like to have a few words with many like yourself, to warn you to turn from The Messages and messengers teaching you of their mystical god.

But...for now...I'll let you continue playing that Deity Blame Game.

You do have His permission!




 2018/12/5 12:49Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1947
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Even I, an immortal mortal, know the future.

No ifs about it. You, will write no book!

You can bank on it.

If Eu-genie could have 3 wishes granted him, methinks he'd like to have a few words with many like yourself, to warn you to turn from The Messages and messengers teaching you of their mystical god.

But...for now...I'll let you continue playing that Deity Blame Game.

You do have His permission!



Quick Q. Did God predetermine for Todd to "play that Deity Blame Game?"

If God predetermined and "performed" such, why should you or anyone else object to God's own predetermination or "sovereign plan" or "sovereign choice?"

Did God predetermine or choose for myself and others to believe in libertarian freewill (i.e. the ability to choose to receive or reject the gospel)? If God predetermined and chose such, why should you object to God's own predetermination or choice?

The same could be asked regarding any and all false teachings or cults. Did God predetermine for such people to believe and teach such things? Again, if so, why should you or anyone object to God's own predetermination?


_________________
Oracio

 2018/12/5 12:58Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 186
Cambodia

 Re:

Thanks Oracio. I hope my post did not suggest God doies evil. I only was saying He created the circumstances that would create the evil that Sayan tempts and man does in those examples. We agree that God steers the directions of men’s hearts by withdrawing grace. And decrees a temptation that Satan does which situation Scripture calls a testing by God. Can we agree that His grace is meted out on some, not all in the same measure, with pure free will on God’s part and by His own wisdom and decree all of which is purposeful and planned. ?


_________________
Robert

 2018/12/5 14:01Profile





©2002-2018 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy