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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Author of the contemporary translation of the Bible, The Message.

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TMK
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 Re:

//A paraphrase actually uses the Greek Eugene Petersons makes up words and puts them in the text that are not in the Greek//

Dom a paraphrase is allowed to add words. That is why it’s a paraphrase and not a translation. Like I said before the Message is full of modern words that did not even exist during Bible times. Since it is a paraphrase and not a translation he can do this but he always stays on track with the original text.

“And they came to Him and awoke Him, saying, “Master, Master, we are perishing!” Then He arose and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water. And they ceased, and there was a calm.”
Luke 8:24 NKJV


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Todd

 2018/12/3 20:07Profile
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 Re:

God’s readiness to give and forgive is now public. Salvation’s available for everyone! We’re being shown how to turn our backs on a godless, indulgent life, and how to take on a God-filled, God-honoring life. This new life is starting right now, and is whetting our appetites for the glorious day when our great **God and Savior, Jesus Christ,**appears. He offered himself as a sacrifice to free us from a dark, rebellious life into this good, pure life, making us a people he can be proud of, energetic in goodness.
Titus 2:11

At the same time, you need to know that I carry with me at all times a huge sorrow. It’s an enormous pain deep within me, and I’m never free of it. I’m not exaggerating—Christ and the Holy Spirit are my witnesses. It’s the Israelites. . . If there were any way I could be cursed by the Messiah so they could be blessed by him, I’d do it in a minute. They’re my family. I grew up with them. They had everything going for them—family, glory, covenants, revelation, worship, promises, to say nothing of being the race that produced the ***Messiah, the Christ, who is God over everything,*** always. Oh, yes!
Romans 9:1 - MSG

**But he says to the Son, You’re God,**and on the throne for good; your rule makes everything right. You love it when things are right; you hate it when things are wrong. That is why God, your God, poured fragrant oil on your head, Marking you out as king, far above your dear companions.
Hebrews 1:8 - MSG

We know that none of the God-begotten makes a practice of sin—fatal sin. The God-begotten are also the God-protected. The Evil One can’t lay a hand on them. We know that we are held firm by God; it’s only the people of the world who continue in the grip of the Evil One. And we know that the Son of God came so we could recognize and understand the truth of God—what a gift!—and we are living in the Truth itself, in God’s Son, Jesus Christ.***This Jesus is both True God and Real Life.*** Dear children, be on guard against all clever facsimiles.
1 John 5:18 - MSG
——————

Give it up Dom. I am not going to let you (or your heresy hunter websites) get away with slandering a departed brother in Christ.


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Todd

 2018/12/3 20:18Profile
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

I think it is you who is grasping at straws say if is was translating your post decided to add some of my ideas and not translate directly what you are saying and just made things up.

You gave examples that actually goes against your case .
1 John 5:18
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise

As this has absolutely no correspondence to this

We know that none of the God-begotten makes a practice of sin—fatal sin. The God-begotten are also the God-protected. The Evil One can’t lay a hand on them. We know that we are held firm by God; it’s only the people of the world who continue in the grip of the Evil One. And we know that the Son of God came so we could recognize and understand the truth of God—what a gift!—and we are living in the Truth itself, in God’s Son, Jesus Christ.***This Jesus is both True God and Real Life.*** Dear children, be on guard against all clever facsimiles.
1 John 5:18 - MSG

Begotten God could mean that he is created , it actually confuses things

Hebrew 1:8

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom


**But he says to the Son, You’re God,**and on the throne for good; your rule makes everything right. You love it when things are right; you hate it when things are wrong. That is why God, your God, poured fragrant oil on your head, Marking you out as king, far above your dear companions.
Hebrews 1:8 - MSG

It adds whole phrases to the passage and puts son your God and add the phrase your God essentially denying the deity of jesus and the phrase why God your God ..

God’s readiness to give and forgive is now public. Salvation’s available for everyone! We’re being shown how to turn our backs on a godless, indulgent life, and how to take on a God-filled, God-honoring life. This new life is starting right now, and is whetting our appetites for the glorious day when our great **God and Savior, Jesus Christ,**appears. He offered himself as a sacrifice to free us from a dark, rebellious life into this good, pure life, making us a people he can be proud of, energetic in goodness.

What does the phrase energetic in goodness means where does he get that from this text

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; note

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

He misses the fact of redemption.

Im sorry but I have not even started to look at these passages in Greek

You probably did a search in the message and found few references to Jesus Christ as lord missing this out and adding words of Eugene Petersons own imagine detract from the scriptures

Maybe things such as the deity of Jesus Christ , the virgin birth and other fundemental doctrines aren't important to you they were to the early church who shed blood.

Maybe you are so nieve to think that if you put sewage in a glass of clean water would you drink it.
2 Thessalonians
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle

We need to test everything by the word of God , the bible was written in Greek and Hebrew and not in English

It breaks my heart as I could go through these verses in Greek as it does not seem Todd you are intelligent enough or maybe through the septugient.

The Jehovah's witnesses change one word to lessen the deity of Jesus Christ in John 1:1 . Eugene Peterson makes and adds whole new phrases that are not even in the greek.

I do not say translate homers oddsey and put the avengers comic as a good translation for homers oddsey

Just because something is new does not necessarily mean it is good and people can twist translations to influence the church in wrong doctrine. As there are gay translations , there are all different types of twisted translations.

To me this paraphrase the only place it belongs is burned or deleted as it detracts from the scriptures


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/12/3 20:52Profile
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 Re:

Dom- every passage I posted below contains an affirmation of the deity of Christ. Look between the **. Yet you continue to insist that Peterson is denying the deity of Christ. Just stop.

In the 1John 5 passage, the “God-begotten” is referencing believers, not Jesus. Read a little more carefully.

But to your point, the most famous verse in all of scripture in the traditional translations says Jesus was begotten. So what’s the big deal? No mainstream Christian thinks that means Jesus was created when it says that.

Like I said before if you don’t like The Message, then just leave it alone. You are entitled to your opinion. But don’t go around spreading lies and slandering a deceased brother. Millions of very strong Christians, including my dear mother who has read through the Bible yearly for probably 30 years, enjoys the Message on occasion. Not as a primary Bible, certainly, but to get a fresh view on certain passages. I am sure that Peterson would not want or expect his paraphrase to take the place of a true translation.


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Todd

 2018/12/4 7:34Profile
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Find a reference to the lord Jesus Christ in the message ?
As there is no reference.

A translation is a translation from the Greek or Hebrew and I would put the message in say the same realm as the new world translation.

Doctrine is important

Matt 26

22 They were stunned, and then began to ask, one after another, “It isn’t me, is it, Master?”

23-24 Jesus answered, “The one who hands me over is someone I eat with daily, one who passes me food at the table. In one sense the Son of Man is entering into a way of treachery well-marked by the Scriptures—no surprises here. In another sense that man who turns him in, turns traitor to the Son of Man—better never to have been born than do this!”

25 Then Judas, already turned traitor, said, “It isn’t me, is it, Rabbi?”

As in the message Eugene Peterson switches the message as in all other translations, all the other translations , is it me lord and the Greek corresponds

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/26.htm

There are 26 references to lord in the message none of them refer to Jesus as lord
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=MSG&quicksearch=Lord&begin=47&end=73

Todd I think you have been decieved as it says in

2 Thessalonians
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

It is not a translation or a paraphrase as it does not even reference the Greek he puts new phrases in the scriptures

Deuteronomy 4:2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
2 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

The thing I specifically asked for where Jesus is a lord kuriois in the greek in the message you completly ignored me and you are not humble enough to admit yourself in the wrong .

When we are dealing with some of these fundemental doctrines it is the difference whether someone is truly saved or not
Things such as the virgin birth and the deity of Jesus Christ are no laughing matter


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/12/4 12:57Profile
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 Re:

Mary said to the angel, “But how? I’ve never slept with a man.”
Luke 1:34 - MSG

Virgin = never slept with a man. Right?


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Todd

 2018/12/4 13:05Profile
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 Re:

//His reference to Jesus as master denies the deity of jesus//

I think you just denied the deity of Christ because you did not capitalize His name.

That is just about as ridiculous as what you are saying.

What do you think the word “lord” means? When Paul says you must confess Jesus as Lord what do you think that means?

Hint: “Why do you call me Lord and not do what I say?”

How many people go around today using the word “lord?” Nobody, which is why Peterson used a synonymous word. Yes, lord is synonymous with master.

lord
/lôrd/Submit
noun
1.
someone or something having power, authority, or influence; a master or ruler.
"lord of the sea"
synonyms: master, ruler, leader, chief, superior, monarch, sovereign, king, emperor, prince, governor, commander, suzerain, liege


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Todd

 2018/12/4 14:34Profile
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 Re:

https://www.gotquestions.org/amp/LORD-GOD-Lord-God.html

What do LORD, GOD, Lord, God, etc., stand for in the Bible?
LORD GOD Lord God
Question: "What do LORD, GOD, Lord, God, etc., stand for in the Bible? Why are they used in place of God's name?"

Answer: It can be very confusing to understand how the different titles used for God are used in the Bible. Part of the problem is that different Bible translations use the terms somewhat differently. The primary reason for the use of LORD in place of God's Hebrew name is to follow the tradition of the Israelites in not pronouncing or spelling out God's name. So, when God's Hebrew name "YHWH" is used in the Old Testament, English translations usually use "LORD" in all caps or small caps. Also, since ancient Hebrew did not use vowels in its written form, it is not entirely clear how God's name should be spelled or pronounced. It could be Yahweh, or Jehovah, or Yehowah, or something else.

As stated above, when "LORD" in all caps or small caps occurs in the Old Testament, it is a replacement for an occurrence of God's Hebrew name "YHWH," also known as the Tetragrammaton. This is fairly consistent throughout all the different English translations of the Bible. When "Lord" occurs in the Old Testament, referring to God, it is usually a rendering of "Adonai," a name/title of God that emphasizes His lordship. LORD/YHWH and Lord/Adonai are by far the two most consistent renderings throughout all the different English Bible translations.

In the Old Testament, when "God" is used, it is usually a rendering of the general Hebrew word for God, "Elohim." When "LORD GOD" or "Lord GOD" occurs, it is usually a rendering of a dual name for God "Adonai YHWH." The Hebrew term "YHWH Sabaoth" is usually rendered "Lord of Hosts." The Hebrew term "YHWH Shaddai" is usually rendered "LORD Almighty." The Old Testament uses many different names and titles to refer to God, to emphasize certain aspects of His person and attributes. This can result in confusion in translation, but in the original Hebrew, it was done entirely in an effort to glorify and magnify God's name.

The usage of "Lord" and "God" in the New Testament is much less complicated. Almost universally, "God" is a translation of "theos," the general Greek word for deity. ****Also almost universally, "Lord" is a translation of "kurios," the general Greek word for a master. *****The key point in all of this is that whether we use His actual Hebrew name, or refer to Him as God, or Lord, or Lord God, we are to always show reverence to Him and His name.
——————-/

See the part between the ****

Curses- foiled again!


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Todd

 2018/12/4 18:50Profile
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

You didn't even do your proper research

2962 κυριος occurs 747 times in the NT. occurs 7129 times in the OT. from kuros (supremacy) kurios 3:1039,486 koo'-ree-os Noun Masculine from kuros (supremacy) ; supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title) :-- God, Lord, master, Sir. he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord the possessor and disposer of a thing the owner; one who has control of the person, the master in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master this title is given to: God, the Messiah

Kuriois if you reference the septugient
English Translation of the Greek Septuagint Bible https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002C758RY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_Rz6bCbHE2EJQ2

The references the links to Yahweh

Do your proper research , you are not humble are you to admit yourself wrong

Problems linking the greek to the message
https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-book-blog/2016/problem-passages-in-the-message

Also phrases such as as above so below which is in the lord's prayer are dangerous


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/12/5 5:23Profile
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 Re:

Why would I admit I am wrong? Eugene Peterson used a perfectly acceptable title for Jesus, namely Master.

Is Jesus your master? I certainly hope so. Lk. 6:46

But regardless, your assertion, or the assertion of those you are consulting, that his use of the word “master” connotes his complicity in some new age conspiracy because he really means “ascended master” is absolutely ridiculous and shameful.

He used master because a) that is what He is, or should be, and b) modern readers understand what that word means when they might not understand what “lord” means. Of course that was his goal in writing The Message- making scripture more understandable to modern readers.


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Todd

 2018/12/5 7:18Profile





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