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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Author of the contemporary translation of the Bible, The Message.

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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5153
NC, USA

 Re:

Hogwash.


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Todd

 2018/12/2 7:32Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Prove it


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/12/2 8:26Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5153
NC, USA

 Re:

You are attempting to show that when Eugene Peterson wrote The Message he was involved in some vast New Age conspiracy based on certain words he used in his paraphrase. That is a bunch of poppycock and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Stay off the headhunter conspiracy websites. It will do you a world of good.


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Todd

 2018/12/2 17:52Profile
deltadom
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

How many translations of the bible have you read cover to cover ?
Stop putting me in the conspiracy theory camp

Would you class the new world translation as a proper translation of the bible.

A translation by definition has to translate the Greek to the English and when you are ignoring words and putting in phrases it therefore does not become a translation you are not using something like the ubs Greek text or the nestle Aland or the textus reciptus to translate from one text to another .

Have you tried using an interlinear or any Greek text on the message it does not work because it is not a translation.

It also uses alot of new age phraseology I could not care about Eugene Petersons personal views but I worked in a Christian bookshop for years and selling a book that has a partial link to the bible.

Ideas matter

Resorting to adhominem attacks shows that attacking me does not by in any case show that the arguments are less weak
To me it shows that you would rather attack the messenger than do your own research


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/12/3 6:48Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
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 Re:

The Message is a paraphrase. It is obvious because he uses anachronisms,ie he references things that are relevant today but didn’t exist 2000 years ago. The purpose was to make some passages more relevant for modern readers.

Now, we can certainly debate the merits of this. You can hate it, others can like it. We can debate whether ultimately it helps or hurts. I suspect it helps folks who have limited or no knowledge of scriptures or who would not read an old school translation. Put it this way— I would rather that an unsaved friend agree to read The Message than refuse to read a KJV.

But to accuse him of being involved in a New Age conspiracy is off the charts.

By the way, Jesus is addressed as “Master” in traditional versions as well.

Paul said he was a slave of Jesus Christ. That means Jesus was and is his Master. But because Peterson has the disciples calling Jesus “master,” it is said to be evidence he was pushing new age ideas. What a joke!

It is that type of grasping at straws to slander a brother that I find so disgusting.


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Todd

 2018/12/3 7:20Profile
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 Re:

Link to interview with Peterson about The Message, and other things:

http://www.leaderu.com/marshill/mhr03/peter1.html


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Todd

 2018/12/3 8:41Profile
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:


Paul said he was a slave of Jesus Christ. That means Jesus was and is his Master. But because Peterson has the disciples calling Jesus “master,” it is said to be evidence he was pushing new age ideas. What a joke!

Can I tell you how signaficant this is this is no light matter as when we are debating a muslim they ask for verses regarding his deity.

To read a bible that denies the deity of Jesus Christ is no laughing matter.

As the doctrine that Jesus was both fully God and fully man
Compare How many times Jesus is mentioned as Lord compared to say even the NKJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=MSG&
quicksearch=lord&begin=47&end=73

compared to KJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=MSG&quicksearch=lord&begin=47&end=73

Romans 13:8
Oh! May the God of green hope fill you up with joy, fill you up with peace, so that your believing lives, filled with the life-giving energy of the Holy Spirit, will brim over with hope!

Look at the interlinear the greek there is no word for green in the greek.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/15.htm
1680 [e]
elpidos
ἐλπίδος
of hope

What you have got to understand a translation actually translates from the Greek into the English this does not.


John 20:28 The Message (MSG)

28 Thomas said, “My Master! My God!”

ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Ὁ Κύριός μου καὶ ὁ Θεός μου
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/20.htm

You cannot translate Kurious as Master as there is a different greek word for that. Kurious is the same word for Yahweh in the greek Septuagint.

The word for master in Greek is despotos
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g1203

Denying the aspect of the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ in a so called interpretation of the scriptures is no light matter.

Maybe you have no understanding of how a translation works but to simply mock me.

So when I am speaking to a Muslim there are no references to Jesus deity or to a morman in the Message that is serious.
This is no light matter.

Jesus is not an ascended Master
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascended_master

Distorting Doctrines such as the Trinity

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

The Message: "I and the Father are one heart and mind."


John 14:28 "...The Father is greater than I."

The Message: "The Father is the goal and purpose of my life


Deleting words regarding the Occult

Minimizes Occult Dangers, Deletes Consequences:
Thessalonians 2:9: "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs, and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

The Message: "The Anarchist's [3] coming is all Satan's work. All his power and signs and miracles are fake, evil sleight of hand that plays to the gallery of those who hate the truth that could save them. And since they're so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it - gives them what they want. Since they refuse to trust truth, they're banished to their chosen world of lies and illusions."

This is no light matter you try and follow the message in the greek or an interlinear you will struggle it a mans interpretation not a translation.


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/12/3 17:16Profile
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 Re:

Dom-

For about the 3rd time The Message is NOT a translation it is a paraphrase. Even Peterson says this.

I guarantee you that he never has denied the deity of Christ.

And in regard to “green” once again he is not translating he is paraphrasing. (It’s Ch 15 not 13). He says “green hope” because of the prior verse context:

“There’s the root of our ancestor Jesse, breaking through the earth and growing tree-tall — tall enough for everyone everywhere to see and take hope! May the God of green hope fill you up with joy...”

So green is referencing the root and tree in the prior sentence. It is not some “code” for some New Age conspiracy.

I have already amply addresses the master nonsense.


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Todd

 2018/12/3 18:23Profile
deltadom
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Read the Greek , kuriois does not mean master
Kuriois is the same word as the word Yahweh
Maybe you don't understand do a search in the message see how many time it uses the word lord and how many times it refers to Jesus as lord

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved

The deity of Christ and the trinity are fundemental doctrines these are not

I am sorry to say that the previous verse mentions green hope it is a reference to Isaiah.

Romans 15
1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: note

6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

There is no reference to green. It is not a paraphrase it is not a translation or did you not read when I went through the Greek

A paraphrase actually uses the Greek Eugene Petersons makes up words and puts them in the text that are not in the Greek

His reference to Jesus as master denies the deity of jesus .

I think you are just in denial


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/12/3 19:47Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5153
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 Re:

“Believe me,” said Jesus, “ I am who I am long before Abraham was anything.”
John 8:58. MSG


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Todd

 2018/12/3 20:01Profile





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