Gifts of the Spirit, Free, are the result of being in fellowship with God. Would you not think that the gift giver is more important than the gifts?
Charasmatic churches have become "christless" in their pursuit for "experiences". That is very sad. David Wilkerson wrote an outstanding piece on that. If you have trouble finding it, let me know. It's called "Christless Penecost" I believe.
Satan has always been a deciever. He mirrors, smoke screens, and lies. But it is powerless.
The promise of the Christ is that the Spirit will baptise with "power", not gifts. Gifts are just tools we use in the administration of the power that He provides when we walk in His will and desire for us doing His good pleasure.
I have a "prayer language" that is unknown to me. I know I simply do not ever feel led to speak in an unknown tongue in church. But diverse administrations of gifts means just that. Diverse, many different kinds, as He wills, not us.
Folks make such a big deal out of tongues. Some say that you are not baptised in the Holy Spirit unless you speak in tongues, regardless of what kind of gibberish they can get you to speak. Then more often than not, someone will "interpret", which sounds about as generic as a greeting card that costs a quarter. I have to doubt the validity of their "gift".
The emphasis of the christian should always be Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would testify of Jesus Himself. So ask yourself, in your own person church or situation. Who is being lifted up and glorified. That will give you a real clue as to who's in charge.
By the way, discernment is a very important gift too. That's one that will bless you over and over again. How I do thank God that He gives me discernment when I need it most. Blessed be the Lord forever and ever.
In awe of His unmerited favor,
| 2005/7/8 20:25|
"Didnt Paul say that we should in fact not use it in church? "
Nope. But he did say that if you're in a church gathering and there's no interpreter to keep it quiet and speak in tongues only to yourself and to God (1 Cor. 14:28). I understand this to mean that if there's nobody to interpret your tongue, don't speak out with it (as in a public proclamation type of way), but you can still speak privately to yourself and God with it anytime, in or out of Church.
| 2005/7/8 21:08||Profile|
As this topic is about tongues anyway, I heard some sermons from Ravenhill and others that they said that even mormons spoke in tongues..
I can't imagine they speak tongues from the Holy Spirit. Can anyone shed some light on this?
| 2005/7/9 7:18||Profile|
I don't know a lot about Mormonism, but it might just be counterfeit. Just like psychic reading can be a counterfeit to true prophecy.
| 2005/7/9 12:26||Profile|
Well I guess that there are also 'fruits' of deceptive spirits or demons, when such as that dwells in you.
| 2005/7/9 16:36||Profile|
I've heard accounts of demonic manifestations of "tougues." Just because someone speaks in tougues doesn't mean they are filled with the Holy Ghost. I do belive in the baptism of the Holy Ghost pentecostally. In other words that when you are baptised in the Holy Ghost you will speak in tougues. That doctrine has been discussed I'm sure in other threads so lets not get into it here. My only hurt about what the pentcostals have done to this doctrine is that I belive there are alot of "shallow baptisms" if that makes sense. What I mean by that is alot of people have spoke in tougues but have not recived that power as a true Baptism of the Holy Ghost would bring. Many in the pentecostal realm have seeked speaking in tougues rather than the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
| 2005/7/9 17:17||Profile|
I wanna take a different spin on all of this.
I do speak in tounges. But i subside it, because of my own convictions.
I.e. I will NOT speak tounges 'over' a person (pray for them in tounges)
I will NOT speak in tounges in church
And i try my best to just not speak in tounges PERIOD. Why? cause the bible says 'as the SPirit gave utterance'.
I thought when i first read 1 Corin. 12 that i was right in my decision on tounges. *(i felt like God was leading me to 3 different kinds of biblical tounges)*
1. Prayer language, NO ONE KNOWS
2. Prophesy, but must be interupted by 2-3 people
3. The 'sign' to the Unbeliever as what happened at Pentacost.
But, thinking about it stronger and dwelling on this topic more and more.
I have thought of a 'new' (or old..idk) way of thinking of what this Scripture truly means.
Keep in mind, all the gifts of the Spirit that are in the NT are in the OT....except this 'prayer language'. Why?? This truly does bother me.
Now you could agrue this, but isn't Jesus the Same ?? not different. If the people in the OT had all the gifts but one...did Christ change something??
*(These are all TRUE questions that i have not found the answer to yet)*
Now, Think of it in the way of the apostles. You know hebrew and aramaic (sp?) and maybe like 1 more language IF THAT. And bam, God fills you up, and you speak in tounges; what happens?? they hear MYSTERIES from GOD. (*when is the last time that happened at your church service, when someone was 'interupting tounges'*)
The bible says tounges is a SIGN for the unbelievers. Could it just be another language?? How can we go off just ONE verse for a doctrine? isn't that how many doctrines of demons come into existance.
I believe maybe (not sure yet) but that maybe tounges could POSSIBLY just be another language, that the person who received it doesn't know yet. (Pray that HE MAY INTERUPT) why? cause the hebrews dont know SPanish!!! the spanish people do...not the hebrews!!
Again, this is just another 'way' to think of tounges. And there have been a few 'weird' scriptures...that speak about 'speaking in a new/strange language'...and i dont think you wanna know what it all says...*cause it will be very ironic*
| 2005/7/10 0:33|
Well what also changed is that the Holy Spirit could only be available to all people because Jesus died and resurrected.
[b]John 16:7[/b] [i]7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.[/i]
Before the Spirit of God would only come on selected people and not for the masses.
I don't think tongues are a sign for unbelievers. If you talk in tongues to someone who does not believe in the word of God will it help the person?
[b]1 Corinthians 14:22 and 23[/b]. Does Paul really say that tongues is a sign for the unbelievers? Look closely at verse 23 and read 24 and 25.
If I could speak in tongues I would prolly not speak in tongues before people but only in privat.
And why not speak it at times when you are alone? It is said that it builds you up. Speaking in tongues is probably the only gift you can purely use for yourself.
Just some thoughts.. perhaps they are helpfull.
| 2005/7/10 8:24||Profile|
I know everyone's stance is pretty much the same. But try to maybe step back from the preconceived notions (im not saying im right..nor wrong..cause i dont even know..lol)
Just test and try it. Try reading 1 Corin. 12-14 , as instead of 'tounges' but as 'languages' or just change it to a specific language.... "English, Spanish"..etc.. Cause they knew hebrew...just not what we speak...
Dwell on these. I'm putting it on the Rock, will it stay? Idk, let the Fire come and devour it, and may God reveal the Truth....whatever it is..
| 2005/7/10 14:41|
| 2005/7/10 15:43|