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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Francis Chan Warns Against Those Who Cause Division in the Church

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AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3208
Louisiana

 Re:





Due to the criticism by some of the The teaching by Francis Chan I listened to the teaching a second time. Was I missing something? Was Francis Chan saying not to judge error and false teaching in the church?

I found the teaching to be sound and there are many scriptures that confirm what Francis is saying. He definetly has a burden for believers to be in unity, and it is true that accusations of the brethren to other members of the Body whether they are true or not brings division into the Body.

I did not hear Francis say not to judge and correct error in the church. What he did say is that we should go to our brother in private to bring correction. Perhaps Francis Chan should have said more about dealing with error in the Church. The Word of God has clear instructions on dealing with a brother that has sinned or is in error.

Again, our brother is not addressing false teachers but true brothers that we may disagree with or have doctrinal differences with.

“For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, this one is a perfect man, able indeed to bridle the whole body.”
(James 3:2)


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Mike

 2018/11/24 8:09Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 4964
NC, USA

 Re:

//I did not hear Francis say not to judge and correct error in the church. What he did say is that we should go to our brother in private to bring correction.//

I hear this all the time, but does anyone ever do it? For example, if Francis Chan believes certain aspects of Bethel Church are in error, has he sought to meet with Bill J in private? What if Bill J does not want to meet with him in private?

Does just anyone have the "right" to meet privately with a pastor whom they believe is teaching error? If not, who does? Certainly it would be best if it was someone who has a relationship with the person, not a stranger off the street.


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Todd

 2018/11/24 9:36Profile
appolus
Member



Joined: 2004/5/16
Posts: 1621


 Re:

My problem is not with Chan, it is what he shared. He mentioned four people by name as examples of the Temple and when you criticized them you were taking a hammer to the Temple and that the only reason you were not dead yet fro doing it, according to Chan, and he said this was a word from the Lord, was because you had not been warned. I guess this was the warning. The four names were Mike Bickle, Rick Warren, Mark Driscoll and John Piper. So, if you criticize them God will kill you once you have been warned. This is the part I have a major problem with. But if folks agree that these men are above being questioned and if you question them God will kill you once you have been warned, I would just disagree completely...........bro Frank


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Frank

 2018/11/24 16:28Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3208
Louisiana

 Re:

“So, if you criticize them God will kill you once you have been warned. “

Brother Frank,
If that were the case then all of our gooses would be cooked.
If any minister is leading the sheep astray through erroneous teaching then it should be addressed, and a false teacher or prophet should be called out by name.


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Mike

 2018/11/24 18:19Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1934
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I believe there's a big difference between a false teacher and a brother who may be misled in certain areas of "non-salvific" doctrine or theology.

A false teacher is one who teaches damnable heresies. When it comes to that type of person, believers should definitely be warned concerning them. Even then, we must be careful with our words and not be rash in our speech. And we must be led of the Spirit in terms of when and how to warn others regarding such false teachings. And our ministries should not just be about warning others regarding false teachers and their teachings lest we become imbalanced.

On the other hand, if certain brothers are teaching things with which we disagree, things that are not damnable heresies, we can respectfully discuss our disagreements in the right spirit. I believe Chan is warning his hearers concerning slandering certain brothers and calling them false teachers for no justifiable reason.

Also, it appears that Chan is specifically addressing the congregation in the video on account of certain types of gossip and slander that had taken place among them.

Sure, I would have loved it if Chan would have also taught more about when and how to address false teachers and their teachings, so that the message would have been more balanced. But if there is a pressing need in a particular congregation, I can understand why there may be a certain emphasis that addresses the need of the hour. Many pastors sometimes emphasize certain truths when they sense there is a certain need for hearing those truths thundered out more.

Regarding the names he mentioned, I believe that in the past I have wrongly criticized Mark Driscoll and Rick Warren publicly; I don't know anything about Mike Bickle's teachings other than the fact that he's associated with NAR. As far as John Piper is concerned, although I disagree with some of his theology I would not call him a false teacher or anything like that.

I know of one particular YouTube channel of which the creator's aim is to constantly "expose" certain preachers such as John Piper, John MacArthur, Greg Laurie, NAR preachers, etc. etc. He seeks to lump them all as false teachers to be avoided at all costs; he also seeks to "expose" the so-called "Institutional Church System" as a false harlot system. I believe his is a sad case of extremism and in some ways I can see myself in him in the past.


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Oracio Sandoval

 2018/11/24 19:25Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3208
Louisiana

 Re:


“I believe there's a big difference between a false teacher and a brother who may be misled in certain areas of "non-salvific" doctrine or theology. “

Amen! In agreement brother!

I have seen many good brothers labeled as being false teachers and prophets by heresy hunters. They were literally ripping up the wheat with the chaff.

Sent from my iPhone


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Mike

 2018/11/24 20:14Profile
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1700


 Re:

No need to get as personal and disrespectful as some of this discussion got toward others in some places. If false teachers etc. need calling out so does this in my opinion.

Bless everyone as this year begins to wane. God ain't through with any of us yet starting with me.


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David Winter

 2018/11/24 22:33Profile
appolus
Member



Joined: 2004/5/16
Posts: 1621


 Re:

"“So, if you criticize them God will kill you once you have been warned.“

You do realize Mike that it was Chan who said that, not me.............bro Frank


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Frank

 2018/11/25 1:12Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3208
Louisiana

 Re:


“You do realize Mike that it was Chan who said that, not me”

Amen Brother Frank!

I have been critical of true brothers and sisters in the past, and grateful that I haven’t had to dodge any lightning bolts.

His mercy endures forever!


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Mike

 2018/11/25 7:03Profile
appolus
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Joined: 2004/5/16
Posts: 1621


 Re:

"His mercy endures forever!"

Indeed it does brother, for those who are broken and contrite dwell with the most high, and He resists the proud........bro Frank


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Frank

 2018/11/25 9:27Profile





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