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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Francis Chan Warns Against Those Who Cause Division in the Church

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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Francis Chan Warns Against Those Who Cause Division in the Church

Over 3 years ago, God started to speak to me deeply on the great sin of division, slander, and gossip in the body of Christ. God started to have me in situations where great hurt was being done and I saw first hand the way the enemy used these tactics to destroy and hurt the testimony of Jesus Christ in others lives. One of many devotional articles I wrote during that time was called: God's Church Is Sacred In This Earth. The premise of the devotion was a warning that when we speak against the body of Christ we speak against God's Sacred Church of whom we are all a part.

Recently, God spoke to Francis Chan on that exact same verse (1 Corinthians 3:17) to give us a loving warning to the body of Christ against division.

Here is a recent statement Francis made in regards to people who divide and leave Church fellowship:

"There is this terrifying verse in 1 Timothy where Paul talked about two men who rejected the faith. Paul said that he had handed them over to Satan, by which he meant that he’d put them outside of the church (1:20). Basically, these men were actively opposing the works of God, so rather than pretending everything was fine, Paul removed them from the safety and blessings of the fellowship of believers. He was hoping that the misery of being separated from the church would lead them to repent. Are you catching the weight of this? Paul equated removal from the church with being handed over to Satan! It is crazy to me that we live in a time when people are voluntarily doing this to themselves! No church has placed them outside of the fellowship; instead, they’ve handed themselves over to Satan!"

What a sobering thought that those in our day in North America being critical of so much that is called Christian are doing to themselves what Paul the Apostle had to recommend Timothy to do to others as a last resort to have them repent of their pride and sins.

We are living in a day where we are judging others and not ourselves. We are finding it easy to be critical of everything but our own sins we ourselves struggle with.

Francis again shares on how God wants to send real unity to the body of Christ:

"Real love, unity and blessing were supposed to be found in the church. Many are having a hard time finding that, so they’re setting off on their own. Jesus said that the world would see the supernatural unity and love we share in the church and believe in Him through that. But we’re not experiencing it. We’ve given up on it. We no longer believe it is possible."

Perhaps we can start to change our minds and start looking towards others with seeing their good and not bad, speaking blessings over others and not curses. Remember we are fitted together in a temple of God with all saints of all ages. And Francis gives the example of someone taking a sledgehammer to this temple. What a fearful thing to do, of course we would depart from such an individual for fear of what God Himself would do to him. As the Scripture says, "Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them" (Titus 3:10).

You can watch the full video message by Francis Chan, "Are You Destroying The Church" where he gives this loving warning against division in the Church: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJph3Z6cfxM


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SI Moderator - Greg

 2018/11/20 11:57Profile
AbideinHim
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 Re: Francis Chan Warns Against Those Who Cause Division in the Church

Amen! We need to get serious about John 17, praying for unity in the Church, forgiving others as Christ has forgiven us, and walking in love.

Does God view gossip, slander and division in the Church any less of a sin than immorality?


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Mike

 2018/11/20 12:15Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Does God view gossip, slander and division in the Church any less of a sin than immorality?



Great thought. Francis Chan in the video alludes to the thought that God actually is more strict over division than other sins.


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SI Moderator - Greg

 2018/11/20 12:19Profile
DEADn
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 Re: Francis Chan Warns Against Those Who Cause Division in the Church

Francis Chan is aligning himself with people from the NAR who speak false things and promote people to shake while proclaiming it is the Holy Spirit moving. I don't know why Francis has done that but I would warn everyone 'buyer beware' that you are not seduced into the grouping that Francis Chan is embracing.


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John

 2018/11/20 18:56Profile
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 Re:

I listened to Francis sermon. It began great but then I sense a slow gentle turning. Francis goes on to name some preachers who he respects and in his sermon he seems to be rebuke anyone who would cause division because of them but these preachers he names are actually preaching heretical thing.

I like Francis but I don't like it when he preaches something like this where he upholds people preaching falsehoods and if you confront that falsehood then you are guilty of division. That is how a cult is gently created.

Francis is allowing himself to be caught up in a web of deceit and I hate to see it.


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John

 2018/11/21 11:44Profile
appolus
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 Re:

John writes........

"I like Francis but I don't like it when he preaches something like this where he upholds people preaching falsehoods and if you confront that falsehood then you are guilty of division. That is how a cult is gently created."

This is spot on..............bro Frank


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Frank

 2018/11/21 12:33Profile
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 Re:


True believers hate division and they hate gossip and slander. Yet true believers are at times guilty of all of it.

The Church is comprised of the children of the light, they walk in the light and become lights to others. Those outside are of the darkness and they walk in darkness and present darkness to others.

The division between these two kinds of people is already made by God himself.

Yet, God has not appointed any tare-rippers to pull up the tares that grow among the wheat-of-God.
To point out what consist of a weed-believer is every spiritual leaders job. To judge the weeds whereby they are rounded up, cast out and executed is a job given to the angels of God, not the wheat-of-God.

The Church's responsibility is to guard the sheep, to do that there must be discerning, judgments, corrections, warnings and rebukes. This responsibility is not limited to pastors, in fact it can be said that wayward sheep are so by way of other sheep saying and doing nothing to resist their straying hearts. The love of God is not sentimental, squishy, politically correct, or absent of harsh words.

If the love of God is understood as a love that genuinely cares for those whom are loved, those whom are loved would be treated as Christ treats us.

When I hear sermons directed at correcting 'divisions, gossip, slanders, strife and that sermon is corrective, contains the judgment of God, contains warnings and direction for repentance, am I to assume that the corrective is divisive? Am I to assume the warning or rebuke is strife and mean-spirited? So, if I judge the correction as divisive, when and where can I be corrected? If God's beloved ministers cannot offer a correction as the Spirit of God leads with that same minister being accused of doing what he condemns...just what constitutes a genuine corrective and warning?

Singular sermons that deal with errors that arise among God's people do not contain all that needs to be said on the subject, but in fact contain what needs to be said to those individuals/groups that will open their hearts to listen to the Spirit of God.

If Francis is really trying to issue warnings to the Church at large that they shouldn't judge Bethel or NAR or whoever because Francis is personally motivated to protect a preferred group of his own...then Francis could be reproved, but until that is actually proven, it is wiser to judge the sermon on its own merits and obey what you know is of God.


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Marvin

 2018/11/21 14:20Profile
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 Re:

{quote]
If Francis is really trying to issue warnings to the Church at large that they shouldn't judge Bethel or NAR or whoever because Francis is personally motivated to protect a preferred group of his own...then Francis could be reproved, but until that is actually proven, it is wiser to judge the sermon on its own merits and obey what you know is of God.

[/quote}

This is what I did. I judged this sermon on its own merit. Francis names people in his sermon as great ministers but if you take each one of them and evaluate their doctrine they do not preach the Gospel but he admonishes them as if they are brothers in Jesus. This is my point and it is very dangerous and borderline heretical.

I think Francis said what he said because he knows those who named are under scrutiny and he is looking to bring everyone together but how do you do that without rebuke to false doctrine?

Follow Francis Chan in the future and see what he says and he would fellowship with. Evaluate their doctrine and then ask yourself if rebuke is in order or we should remain silent against what he has said in his sermon.

He didn't rebuke anyone except those apparently causing divisions because he was preaching that sermon in a church that has been rebuked. To me he is wanted to unrebuke it if that is a word.

Francis is not a false teacher but if he hangs out with them how long before his message is subtly replaced by something false?

Let's hope that never happens. Pray for someone to confront him on these things.

John


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John

 2018/11/21 14:39Profile
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 Re:

" it is wiser to judge the sermon on its own merits and obey what you know is of God."

That is exactly what happened, people judged his words because he named names. He named specific names that were not to be judged and if they were, those who judged them were in danger of being killed by God........bro Frank


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Frank

 2018/11/21 14:40Profile
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 Re:

Again, irony abounds in this common theme going through recent threads, posts and responses. Someone claims that too high a percentage in the broader church ( not all ) in the West are engaged in unhealthy systemic sin or they assert that the doctrines being taught by an individual or group of churches are false and hurtful, then they are called accusers, slanderers, gossipers, or destroyers of the temple of God. That will certainly quickly shut down consideration and prayer of whether God is speaking. However, in the very act of making those comeback statements, those making them are doing the very thing they claim the others shouldn't be doing. So, if someone asserts that something is very wrong in the broader church system, that God is displeased and that He has led them to believe that there will be a corporate, temporal, corrective and loving judgement, then they are labeled a co-worker with Satan and destroyer and couldn't have heard from the Lord because He loves His children too much and would never do such a negative thing and those who would say otherwise are laboring with Satan in destroying the church. In their very comeback, however, they are then theoretically destroying God's temple themselves in their counter accusing of brothers. Its all so circular. Besides that, there is way too much counter argument from OT and NT for that response that He would "scourge" His children for that position to stand long.

What I perceive in this is far too much opinion and predisposition to seeing God a certain way or perserving personal preferences and traditions and too little Scripture or words from the Lord. Is it not possible that those who exhort and rebuke in love of the Body may possibly be led by God or have many become so worried about unity that they have lost a love for the whole counsel of God. Unity can certainly be achieved if we label those we disagree with as co workers of Satan. That will get every one in line. It is not disunifying, slander, or gossip to rebuke in love if God has directed it. That's the ultimate question then. Has God directed it.

Building up the Body of Jesus includes by definition removing that which destroys, renders unhealthy or weakens her. Building up the Body is more than positive reinforcement. There are seasons, people and churches that require comforting, and strengthening of weak hands and knees when they have been dealt serious blows by the enemy. Then there are also times and situations that require loving but clear diagnosis, warnings and often painful surgery in order to bring about health and life by unrepentant self inflicted behaviors and beliefs. The only question is what is the need of the time and the Body and what does the Lord say?

I don't think any of you know me or what I do which is better because hopefully the only issue will not be the messenger but the message. I think there is a long history on this site of trying to avoid winning disagreements by trumping each other with spiritual resumes or quotes from other well known pastors. What does the Lord say? In much love to Jesus, the Family and each of you who have spoken into this rather "sharp disagreement". Thankful for all.


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Robert

 2018/11/22 6:23Profile





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