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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why Do you call me Lord...

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Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1920
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Todd, since you think Ghandi provides a poor example for what you meant to pose in the OP, I'm curious to know what kind of person you ideally had in mind. Is it someone who believes in different gods along with Jesus, who does what Jesus commands?

If so, I think Scripture teaches clearly that that's impossible, because one of Jesus commands is that people repent of idolatry (God's Word is replete with that command in both the Old and New Testament). So if they are unwilling to part with their false gods they most certainly are not doing what Jesus says to do.


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Oracio Sandoval

 2018/11/6 20:50Profile
BranchinVINE
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 422
Australia

 Re:

James 2:17-18 –
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."



Can a man who is not abiding in Christ and Christ in him produce any work that is acceptable to God?

John 15:4-5 –
Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.



Can a man produce any work acceptable to God that is not done through the Holy Spirit?

1 Cor. 3:6 –
………for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Rom. 8:8 –
and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Zech. 4:6 –
……'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the LORD of hosts.

Ezek. 36:26-28 –
Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God.



Is it man’s own work or God working in man?

Phil. 2:13 –
for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.



Therefore, is it possible for a man to live like Jesus told us to live and yet be rejected by God?


ADD:

Can a man even live as Jesus told us to live if he is apart from Christ and is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit?

Are not his good works just "filthy rags" to God (Isa. 64:6)?





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Jade

 2018/11/7 1:37Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 4955
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 Re:

“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.
Luke 6:46-48


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Todd

 2018/11/7 7:12Profile
BranchinVINE
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 422
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 Re:

1 Cor. 12:3 –
………and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Rom. 8:9 –
But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Rom. 8:11 –
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Ezek. 36:26-28 –
Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God.

Zech. 4:6 –
……'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the LORD of hosts.


ADD:
Rom. 8:8 -- and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.



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Jade

 2018/11/7 8:06Profile
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 Re:

But what makes Jesus “Lord?”


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Todd

 2018/11/7 10:54Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1920
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Todd, with all due respect brother, any interpretation of any passage of Scripture which contradicts other clear passages cannot stand. We both know that we must consider the whole counsel of God's Word when seeking the true meaning of any Bible passage or verse.

These are a few passages which clearly show God's intolerance of those who worship false gods:

Old Testament:

“You shall have no other gods before Me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."-Exodus 20:3-6

“Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will bring calamity on this place and on its inhabitants—all the words of the book which the king of Judah has read— 17 because they have forsaken Me and burned incense to other gods, that they might provoke Me to anger with all the works of their hands. Therefore My wrath shall be aroused against this place and shall not be quenched.’”-2 Kings 22:16-17

"For they provoked Him to anger with their high places, And moved Him to jealousy with their carved images. 59 When God heard this, He was furious, And greatly abhorred Israel, 60 So that He forsook the tabernacle of Shiloh, The tent He had placed among men, 61 And delivered His strength into captivity, And His glory into the enemy’s hand. 62 He also gave His people over to the sword, And was furious with His inheritance. 63 The fire consumed their young men, And their maidens were not given in marriage. 64 Their priests fell by the sword, And their widows made no lamentation."-Psalm 78:58-64

“Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: ‘You have seen all the calamity that I have brought on Jerusalem and on all the cities of Judah; and behold, this day they are a desolation, and no one dwells in them, 3 because of their wickedness which they have committed to provoke Me to anger, in that they went to burn incense and to serve other gods whom they did not know, they nor you nor your fathers. 4 However I have sent to you all My servants the prophets, rising early and sending them, saying, “Oh, do not do this abominable thing that I hate!” 5 But they did not listen or incline their ear to turn from their wickedness, to burn no incense to other gods. 6 So My fury and My anger were poured out and kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; and they are wasted and desolate, as it is this day.’"-Jeremiah 44:2-6

New Testament:

"And in Lystra a certain man without strength in his feet was sitting, a cripple from his mother’s womb, who had never walked. 9 This man heard Paul speaking. Paul, observing him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed, 10 said with a loud voice, “Stand up straight on your feet!” And he leaped and walked. 11 Now when the people saw what Paul had done, they raised their voices, saying in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!” 12 And Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Zeus, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, intending to sacrifice with the multitudes. 14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out 15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, 16 who in bygone generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways. 17 Nevertheless He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.” 18 And with these sayings they could scarcely restrain the multitudes from sacrificing to them."-Acts 14:18

"Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”-Acts 17:29-31

"the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?"-1 Corinthians 10:20-22

"But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk."-Revelation 9:20

Add: "For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God"-1 Thessalonians 1:9


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Oracio Sandoval

 2018/11/7 11:32Profile
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 Re:

I am not talking about worshipping false gods. That is a no-brainer.

When Jesus said “why do you call me LORD...” what did He mean- right then when He said those words?


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Todd

 2018/11/7 11:43Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1920
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

But you asked about not calling Jesus Lord or not "exclusively" calling Him Lord. And you brought up Ghandi as an example, one who worshiped the false gods of Hinduism, who yet seemed to do a lot of good things which Jesus commanded.


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Oracio Sandoval

 2018/11/7 12:00Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1920
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Like Ricky Ricardo would say, "Plees splain yurself!"


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Oracio Sandoval

 2018/11/7 12:10Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 4955
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 Re:

I can’t ‘splain. I don’t even remember my original point I was trying to make. I shouldn’t have brought up Gandhi.

But it does seem that Jesus put more credence in following his commands than creeds.

In the US someone can say Trump is not their president and they can work against him at every turn but he is still really their president.

Jesus seems to be saying that is not true with Him.


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Todd

 2018/11/7 13:53Profile





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