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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Romans 4:19-21

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 Re:

WOW!!!!

Knowing God is knowing the never ending - unfolding life we have received really is. First, in 1 John 5:11-12, John said this about that life. God has given us HIS-unfolding life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son [Jesus dwelling in your heart] has life.

The term His never ending - unfolding life carries the concept of the unfolding of our lives, step by step, out from Jesus living in our hearts. That unfolding of Jesus as our life will continue step by step, from glory to glory, forever.

But what is this life we now possess?

A Fountain of Water. Now, we said that we don't hold mental images in our brains depicting God. Nonetheless, Jesus gives us a picture in John 4:14 that He wants us to have when we think about the life that is Father, knowing Father, inside of us. Whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become inside of him a fountain of water springing up into never ending - unfolding life.


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Vern

 2018/10/8 11:51Profile
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 Re:

Agree, Vern.

The life of Christ in us through the Holy Spirit is a never ending-unfolding life that begins now and will continue step by step, from glory to glory, forever.

Rom. 11:33 -- Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God!


ADD:

Eph. 3:14-19 -- ….that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith....that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

Phil. 3:8 -- …….that I may gain Christ

Phil. 3:12 -- Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.



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Jade

 2018/10/8 23:56Profile
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 Re:


T. Austin Sparks:

THE OBJECT OF FAITH

“It is not that we have somehow to conjure up something called faith. It is the object of faith that is vital, ……and as the letter to the Hebrews so forcibly sets forth, even Jesus Christ, Who He is, what He is, the place He occupies, and His capacity. It is all in Him. The focal point of faith is Jesus Christ, and the value, the virtue, the power of faith is derived from its object, it is not in itself. It is not until you get the right object of faith that faith is a potent thing. ……To become a positive spiritual factor in the house of God means that there has to come a vital link between your spirit and Jesus Christ, a living union by faith with Jesus Christ, and it is that taking hold on Him in faith that provides the channel, the vehicle, through which the energy of God comes. The energy of God, the Holy Ghost, comes along the line of Jesus Christ as the object: not something that we call faith, which may, after all, be something that we have worked up to make ourselves believe. Oh no, what matters is the object of faith, the Lord Himself. God works on the ground of His Son, and you and I apprehend His Son, Jesus Christ, by faith. The Holy Ghost seals that, everything is related to that.”


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Jade

 2018/10/11 19:36Profile
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 Re:


Very good sermon by Major Ian Thomas:


Jehoshaphat – “Faith cometh by Hearing"

http://ia801605.us.archive.org/5/items/SERMONINDEX_SID26481/SID26481.mp3




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Jade

 2018/10/11 21:24Profile
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 How do I experience this union with God in Christ?

Here is the real question - how do I experience this union with God in Christ?

You DO NOT enter into union with the Lord Jesus Christ. You are incapable of doing such a thing. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Try for the rest of your life and you will never know Jesus as He really is.

Here is the truth - God has already united you with Christ Jesus. That is your present reality

1 Corinthians 1:30

New International Version (©1984) "It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption."

New Living Translation (©2007) "God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; He made us pure and holy, and He freed us from sin."

Basically, many Christians are trying to get what they already have in Christ. They are trying to get into a room that they are already in. Christians are striving to improve themselves instead of resting in the power of His resurrection life. If we understood what the Bible declares to be true, then there is no self to improve. For a "dead man" can't be improved. "You are dead, and Christ is your life..." (Col. 3:3-4). God doesn't want improved nor recommitted people. He wants dead people. Why? You can't be raised with Christ if you are not dead.

Salvation is one thing and one thing alone and that is the PERSON of Christ living in you NOW. Jesus has entered into union with you!! You will never know Jesus in His power until you first accept Him as having already come unto union with all of your human weakness and inability. Jesus Himself NOW lives in you as you.

How do you start on your journey towards knowing this Jesus who is living inside you? It is so simple that many of us have missed it. Just embrace the fact of reality of the True Lord Jesus Christ, the Sustainer of everything, the One-Seed Son of God, lives inside your heart NOW!! Think, now, about this present fact, this is our first step of "believing in Jesus." First - "You believe in God, believe also in Me" and then - "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me" (John 14:1 & 11).

He is your Continuous Connection. Now Jesus lives in your heart in all that He is, and if the Father, that is, God the All-Carrying One, lives inside of Jesus, then - God Himself lives inside of you. The Father is in Jesus in you. Now that's a big deal. - God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29).

Right now you will know these words are coming into you as the Holy Spirit writing the Lord Jesus Christ upon your heart. Word and Spirit are ALWAYS together. Word without Spirit cannot be of God. Spirit without Word cannot be of God. Word and Spirit are always together, yet Word always leads, yet Spirit goes before to prepare the way for Word. Your ability, now, to believe that God is telling you the truth when He speaks concerning you, that ability is a miracle and gift of the Holy Spirit.

Christ lives in your heart through faith. Do you KNOW what God is telling you now is the truth through these words? Now just receive these words coming into you through faith to be Jesus in Person living inside your heart, then you have been touched by a miracle of God and the power of the Holy Spirit is overshadowing you. This Jesus living inside of you is the very same Jesus that was conceived inside of Mary.

Just take God at His word. You can do this NOW. You are being drawn by the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is opening your eyes to this existing reality of Christ living within you. He has established you in love. He has totally qualified you and made you worthy. You are rooted and grounded in His Love. The veil over your eyes has been lifted. Now just embrace that fact any boldly speak something like this out loud. "I do believe you God. I take you at your Word. You alone have made me one with Christ and made me one with you. This union I now have was not the result of my efforts or energy, In fact it has nothing to do with me at all but what YOU did IN CHRIST Jesus Christ Is Now my LIFE- He Now lives inside of me. His Life is the only life I have. I can never be separated from Him".

Did you do that? You can do it NOW!!

There is a LIVING river of His Life and Love right now inside you and it near ceases. In fact this Life just keeps growing, expanding and unfolding every second. Nothing can stop it from growing, expanding or unfolding because it is CHRIST HIMSELF!! The devil can not stop it. Circumstances can not stop it. Your feelings and emotions can not stop it. You can not stop it even if you wanted to.

Do not forget that the only way for the Spirit's transforming power to be activated in us is by simply believing what God says instead of striving to become who we already are. Once we respond to Gods truth concerning us we believe, then Truth (Jesus) will takes us over and takes hold of is by His Holy Spirit and transform us into the new persons we already are, thereby causing us to spontaneously manifest righteousness.

God has given us this eternal life by putting us in Christ and given us His Holy Spirit to live in us and through the agency of the Holy Spirit we know the reality of Christ in us. Because Christ is in us, as He is, we are. TRUE FAITH is being fully assured that God's promise of eternal life to us through Christ in us by the Holy Spirit is YES! SO BE IT!!

John 17:3 - "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."


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Vern

 2018/10/12 5:42Profile
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 Re: Romans 4:19-21

If you want to muddle up this issue some more, consider:

1 Chronicles 1:32: Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

It seems as though Abraham sired these children after Sarah's death. But when he was old and Sarah still living, "he considered his body good as dead" which could indicate a health issue that made him think he could no longer sire a child. On the other hand, there is faith/hope: all physical evidence would indicate the impossible but hope means God will work in spite of it, proving he is the Creator still. In Abraham's case faith meant he will still try and expect God to work when the evidence was such it could not be otherwise.

My understanding. What say?



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Sandra Miller

 2018/10/12 10:34Profile
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 Re:

Sandra,

(1)
“But when he was old and Sarah still living, ‘he considered his body good as dead’ which could indicate a health issue that made him think he could no longer sire a child.”

My Comment:

The Bible says:
Rom. 4:19 -- ……he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead ((((( since he was about a hundred years old )))))……

The reason why Abraham considered his body as good as dead was OLD AGE, NOT ill-health.

Life in Christ ascends from glory to glory. It is life without end.

Life in self is descends from futility to futility. It is life with death at its end.



(2)
“In Abraham's case faith meant he will still try and expect God to work when the evidence was such it could not be otherwise.”

My Comment:

The Bible says:
Rom. 4:20-21 -- yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

Abraham‘s faith did NOT mean that “he was still trying to expect God to work” BUT he was FULLY ASSURED !!! that what God had promised, He was also able to perform.



(3)
“1 Chronicles 1:32: Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.”


SOME THOUGHTS

Abraham has only ONE true seed which is Christ.

Gal. 3:16 -- Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

We are Abraham’s seed IN CHRIST.

Gal. 3:26 -- For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Isaac is the representation.

Gal. 4:28 -- And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.

THROUGH CHRIST, Abraham became the father of a multitude of nations.


The sons of Keturah are not sons of the promise because only Isaac is.

They were not fellow heirs of Abraham with Isaac and were sent away.

Gen. 25:5 -- Now Abraham gave all that he had to Isaac; but to the sons of his concubines, Abraham gave gifts while he was still living, and sent them away from his son Isaac eastward, to the land of the east.

They were not sons of Sarah, the “free woman” in Gal. 4:31, therefore not of the “Jerusalem above” (Gal. 4:26).

They do not represent sons of God IN Christ, Abraham’s true seed, which is represented by Isaac. They do not represent heirs of God according to promise.

Gal. 3:29 -- And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Rom. 8:16-17 -- The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

I see them representing Christians who are apart from Christ, Christian who are not branches in the True Vine, Christians who are not abiding in Christ and Christ is not in them.


Consider Midian, the fourth son of Keturah (Gen. 25:1-2). He was an enemy of the descendants of Isaac as shown in the following scripture:

(i)
Connection with Ishmaelites

Joseph was sold by his brothers to traders going to Egypt. In the Genesis account of this event, the Midianites and Ishmaelites are so intermingled they seem to have the same identity.

Gen. 37:25 – Then they sat down to eat a meal. And as they raised their eyes and looked, behold, a caravan of Ishmaelites was coming from Gilead, with their camels bearing aromatic gum and balm and myrrh, on their way to bring them down to Egypt.

Gen. 37:26-28 – Judah said to his brothers, "What profit is it for us to kill our brother and cover up his blood? "Come and let us sell him to the Ishmaelites and not lay our hands on him, for he is our brother, our own flesh." And his brothers listened to him. Then some Midianite traders passed by, so they pulled him up and lifted Joseph out of the pit, and sold him to the Ishmaelites for twenty shekels of silver. Thus they brought Joseph into Egypt.

Gen. 37:36 -- Meanwhile, the Midianites sold him in Egypt to Potiphar, Pharaoh's officer, the captain of the bodyguard.


(ii)
Connection with Moabites

Num. 22:1-7
Elders from Moab and Midian were sent by Balak, king of Moab, to employ Balaam to curse Israel.

Num. 25:6-15
A son of Israel joined himself with a Midianite woman. They were slain by Phinehas the son of Eleazer, the son of Aaron, and the plague which had killed 24 000 was checked.

Num. 31:1-20
Israel waged war again Midian, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. And they killed every male and, also, every woman who had known man intimately. And Balaam was also killed in that war.


(iii)
Connection with Amalekites

Judg. 6:1-8:28
The Midianites joined the Amalekites and the “sons of the east” to oppress Israel by coming up “like locusts” to destroy their produce at harvest time.



My Comment:

Abraham had other children who were not children of the promise.

They had no share in Isaac’s inheritance.

They were sent away.

Are we IN Christ, Abraham’s true seed?

The Church at Ephesus had many good works but had lost their first love. They needed to repent or their lampstand would be removed out of its place (Rev. 2:1-7).

The Church at Laodicea considered themselves rich (riches can also be religious riches) but Christ was not within.
Rev. 3:20 – Beholod, I stand at the door and knock……

2 Cor. 13:5 (KJV) -- Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

John 15:4-6 -- Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.



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Jade

 2018/10/13 9:45Profile
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 Re:


Major Ian Thomas:

“The surest way of reckoning ourselves dead to sin and to our old Adamic nature is to reckon ourselves alive in Jesus Christ and to be continually dependent on Him.”

“……without Me you can do nothing. So how much is it worth that you do that isn’t Jesus doing? Nothing. The truth is that Jesus alone can and we can’t. And that is the principle of the Christian life whereby you will reign in Christ Jesus moment by moment more than conquerors. In every situation, threat, opportunity and responsibility, you say, “I can’t”. You never say ‘I could’. But, ‘You can’, whose strength is made perfect in our weakness. And you always say, ‘You would’……That is what the Bible calls faith.”




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Jade

 2018/10/15 2:57Profile
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 Reckoning

The word reckon is a banking word. It means you can count on money in the bank when you go shopping. You can write checks because there's money in the bank. Reckoning doesn't put money in the bank. But counting on the fact that there is money in the bank will free you to write checks. After explaining that we have died and been raised with Christ, Paul said, "Even so consider [reckon] yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus" (Romans 6:11).

You are dead to sin. You are alive to God. Reckoning doesn't make it so. It is already so. But reckoning allows you to live out of the fact that it is so. God says you are a brand-new creature. The old one died. You don't look dead, you don't feel dead, you don't always act dead, but are you going to agree with God or are you going to debate Him? You may debate Him, but you're going to lose the debate. It's not worth it. So in a simple act of faith you agree with God: "I read that, and it sounds too good to be true, but I'm going to believe that. I'm going to take God at His Word and count it as so."

It is extremely important for you to know that it was totally by God's doing that you are NOW one with Him. He put you in union with Christ. You DO NOT enter into union with the Lord Jesus Christ. You are incapable of doing such a thing. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Try for the rest of your life and you will never know Jesus as He really is.

1 Cor. 1:30, "God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; He made us pure and holy, and He freed us from sin." New Living Translation (©2007)


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Vern

 2018/10/15 8:22Profile
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 Re: Reckoning


Good post, Vern.


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Jade

 2018/10/15 19:40Profile





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