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BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 657
Australia

 Re:



WILD DONKEYS


Ishmael was a wild-donkey man. He was the fruit of flesh that had lost faith in God and turned to self.

Gen. 16:11-12 –
The angel of the LORD said to her further, "Behold, you are with child, And you will bear a son; And you shall call his name Ishmael, Because the LORD has given heed to your affliction. He will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, And everyone's hand will be against him; And he will live to the east of all his brothers."


All men can be considered to be wild-donkey men. All are all born of the sinful flesh of Adam that had forsaken the life of God.

Jer. 2:13 –
For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, The fountain of living waters, To hew for themselves cisterns, Broken cisterns That can hold no water.

Rom. 3:9-18 –
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written,
“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
“THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,”
“THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”;
“WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”;
“THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.”
“THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”



_________________
Jade

 2018/9/17 10:49Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5380
NC, USA

 Re:

I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade, but why does there have to be some mysterious connection? Jesus rode on a donkey because he had need of one and chose a humble animal (perhaps even embarrassing- imagine how he would have looked on a donkey colt).

Why need there be more to it than that?


_________________
Todd

 2018/9/17 11:49Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1117
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


When the messiah, the Christ, the anointed one of God, called, chosen, king over all, set above all others, blessed of God and ruler of Israel...comes he will enter with a golden chariot; a great horde of conquered enemies while he rides in solemn and glorious victory; a team of the best chariot horses followed by a the great fighting men of God... None of this is what the Father wanted for his Son. The Father chose the colt of a donkey, the untrained, unused animal that was not ready for bearing the burden of men.

This is to be seen as a statement of humility and lowliness over against the Kings of Israel and Judah who rode in their best robes and fine chariots pulled by the finest horses with their armies and spoils of war all displayed.

The Donkey is to represent the antithesis of human conquering and the display of kingship and power of a ruler.
So it is today...the greatest of our Evangelists fly in 40-50 million dollar jets with lavish suits and expensive cars and entourage. They have their reward from men. The least of our missionaries has enough to get back home, unseen, no entourage, no fine suit of clothes or praises of men. God will see to it they have their reward.

Be careful of over spiritualizing a text. Jesus had peter bring up a fish with a coin in it to pay his taxes. In old testament scripture we read of Dagon the fish God who in capturing the ark fell before the ark losing hands and head. Are we to think Jesus was mocking Dagon by getting money from a fish?
This is the kind of goofy stuff my Charismatic brothers/sister would come up with when they thought they were getting a 'heavy revvy'. It was in fact no revelation at all.


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Marvin

 2018/9/17 16:58Profile
Bry66
Member



Joined: 2018/9/17
Posts: 1


 Re: the donkey and it’s meaning

Revelation we see Christ on a horse
This represents war

In his humanity we see him on a donkey
This represents him as coming in peace
He is the prince of peace

It is a very definitive expression of the lords peaceful time on the earth

Revelation shows Christ in judgement and at war

Thank the lord that we receive him on a donkey as the prince of peace

 2018/9/17 19:53Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 657
Australia

 Re:



Hi Marvin:

“So it is today...the greatest of our Evangelists fly in 40-50 million dollar jets with lavish suits and expensive cars and entourage. They have their reward from men.”

Agree. The donkey is reigning here, exalting self.

“The least of our missionaries has enough to get back home, unseen, no entourage, no fine suit of clothes or praises of men. God will see to it they have their reward.”

Agree. The self-less lamb is seen here. Poor in “self”, rich in God.

“Be careful of over spiritualizing a text. Jesus had peter bring up a fish with a coin in it to pay his taxes. In old testament scripture we read of Dagon the fish God who in capturing the ark fell before the ark losing hands and head. Are we to think Jesus was mocking Dagon by getting money from a fish? “

There is knowledge that is too deep for us. Who knows……there may be a connection between the fish that brought up the coin for Peter and Dagon the fish god. But where I do not have Biblical light to make a reasonably good and sound connection, I do not attempt to do so.

Scripture does say this:

Rom. 1:20 –
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

And this:

Luke 24:21 –
Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Was Paul over spiritualizing in Gal. 4:22-31?

Was the Lord Jesus over spiritualizing in John 15?


Blessings


_________________
Jade

 2018/9/18 4:11Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 657
Australia

 Re:



Hi Todd:

I certainly was not expecting to be showered with bouquets and accolades in starting this thread. On the contrary I would be surprised if I am not on collision course with hostile opposition as is normal on this forum.

Don’t worry about raining on this parade……I will make it through the rain (!)

Blessings.


_________________
Jade

 2018/9/18 4:13Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 657
Australia

 Re:



MY THOUGHTS ON WHY JESUS RODE ON THE DONKEY ON HIS WAY TO THE CROSS


I suggest that the rider is identified with the animal on which he rides.

At His first coming, the Lord Jesus came as our Saviour and to save us He was “made flesh” like us.

Heb. 2:14 -- Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.

John 1:1-3,14 –
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being…… And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

But Jesus was not born of the fallen flesh of Adam, sold into bondage to sin, as we are (Rom. 7:14). He was of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). He was the Second Man, the heavenly man (1 Cor. 15:47).

Still, being “made flesh”, He was fully capable of living through the flesh i.e. through Himself i.e. live a self-life in the power of self/flesh.

But He did not.

As I see it, these 3 important facts about the donkey Jesus rode on show us that though He rode on the donkey (i.e. though He was “made flesh” like us) He was going to the cross not as a donkey (i.e. living through flesh/self like our old man) but as the perfect and unblemished Lamb of God (i.e. self totally denied and living wholly through His Father by the Holy Spirit as we should be totally denying ourselves and live wholly through Christ by the Holy Spirit):

(1)
Zech. 9:9 –
Behold, your king is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, Humble, and mounted on a donkey……

Compare with:

Phil. 2:5-8 –
……Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Note:
He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on the cross.

Comment:
His flesh was broken by His death at the cross (Matt. 27:50-51; Heb. 10:19-21).
Being humble is to be nothing in ourselves, in our flesh. I am crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live.


(2)
Zech. 9:9 –
See, your King comes to you, righteous and victorious, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

The donkey Jesus rode on was a colt, the foal of a donkey.

Consider this:

Matt. 18:32-4 –
And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Comment:
How is the child humble? He has nothing in himself to boast of. He is totally dependent on his parents to give him everything he needs for his life.

As a man, Jesus was totally dependent on His Father for everything. This could be how the foal portrays Him.

John 17:21 - ……You, Father, are in Me and I in You…..

John 5:19 -- Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.”

John 8:28 -- “… I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.”

John 10:32 -- Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father”

John 12:49 -- For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14:10 -- Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works……



(3)
Mark 11:2 –
……you will find a colt tied there, on which no one yet has ever sat; untie it and bring it here.

No one has ever sat on the colt Jesus rode on. It never had a master.

Comment:
As a man, Jesus was never ruled/led by sinful self/flesh. He did all things through His Father (re: scripture in (2) above).

Food for Thought:
Neither did His Father rule over His “self”/flesh. His self/flesh was just always denied, never awakened, non-existent. He did not exist through Himself, through His self/flesh. He existed only through His Father (re: scripture in (2) above).



Comment:

Although the Lord Jesus rode on a donkey to the cross, He rode as the unblemished Lamb of God and as the Lamb of God He redeemed us donkeys so that we will also be lambs of God in Him. Conformed to His image.



Just some thoughts. Just another point of view.




_________________
Jade

 2018/9/18 4:19Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5380
NC, USA

 Re:

//hostile opposition //

Where?

Mild disagreement is not hostile opposition. I am not even opposed to you over-spiritualizing the donkey if you want to. I just don’t think it’s necessary.


_________________
Todd

 2018/9/18 7:06Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1043


 Re:

Jade,
Jesus came totally in His Father’s Name,.. that is, to bring forth The Word of God to the lost and dying world.

He lived a life of death to himself, all of His life.
He wanted the whole world to see / hear The Word,.. to ‘see’,..’hear’,..God.
It was like “don’t look at me”, but “HEAR”,..”SEE”, what “I Am” saying .

Now, .. does man still want to ‘see’ the man, and NOT see what He has/ ,..
or/ is saying to us ?..... A Jesus, without The Word?.... (another jesus?)

Jesus was humble, meek, and lowly,... although He was born to be The King,

Jn.18:37,
¶ “Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. “TO THIS END” was I born, and “FOR THIS CAUSE” came I into the world, that “should bear witness unto the truth.” Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”

People tried to make Him to be a king,..

In.6:15,
¶ “When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, “to make him a king,” he departed again into a mountain himself alone.“

He would let NO ONE, make Him a king before He had ‘finished’
What His Father, God sent Him here to do.

Next, we see Jesus’ power and authority form His Father, God,...

Jn18:4-5-6,
4 “Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?”

5 ¶ “They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.”

6 “As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he,
‘they went backward”, and fell to the ground.“

Jn.8:26-27,
“¶ And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.”

27 “But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!”

(In all of this we see the power,and authority, from The Father that Jesus had.)

So He rides in on a donkey, that had never been rode on before,.. never been broken,... can we imagine, ...but we see this authority over everything, that he has to do with.!!... but not the pomp.

We know that His Father owned the great/ beautiful, Arabian horses,... but He was here, for One purpose,.. not to elaborate on this world ‘s beauty,.. as man ‘see’s’ it,.. but to “SEE” God,... The Word.

Brother Todd has a point,..and a caution,..

The Lord must give us the “seeing” ...the Spiritual discernment,
If man try’s to discern, the things that be of God,,.. through man’s eyes, he can make shipwreck out of the things that be of God.

Paul says,.. “ but we have the mind of Christ”,..
I believe it came by being filled w/ His Spirit, and seeking to see
through His eyes,... to “see” how He see’s ,... Spiritually minded.
.... a going down,down, down.,... that we may be raised up w/Him,.. into His understanding.
It was not given to Jesus by measure, ... but unto us , it is.
He shows / teaches us, and He shows / teaches us on and on.

And what He gives,.. it is not ours,.. it is His,.. and just passes through us.

————————♥️

elizabeth





 2018/9/18 10:53Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1117
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Hi Jade: I think you as a fair question "what is over-spiritualizing"?

You said...
Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Was Paul over spiritualizing in Gal. 4:22-31?

Was the Lord Jesus over spiritualizing in John 15?

For me, these examples would lead us into trouble. Neither you or I are in a place to offer correctives to the divine Word of God, God forbid that we should do so.

but the question remains "what is over-spiritualizing"?
I believe the answer lay in a few things.
1. making word connections that are not justified by other more explicit teachings of scripture.
2. by making word connections loaded with anecdotal proofs that are better explained by clear and explicit doctrinal exposition.
3. by making word connections that entail the mixing of metaphor, analogy and hyperbole so as to create an innovative meaning to a context that was not designed to create that line of thinking.

I will further explain if you want, but that would require another thread. Lastly the issue becomes a matter of creating 'private interpretations', which because of it's novelty and subjectiveness creates controversy and debate where there need not be.

For example: I may hold dearly to my Dagon and Jesus fish-paying-taxes interpretation, but is there anything explicit in scripture that warrants such an interpretation and warrants the necessity of it? Well, there isn't. So any debate over it is founded purely upon speculation, subjectivity, novelty and my own willfulness...in short a private interpretation.


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Marvin

 2018/9/18 11:33Profile





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