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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Question Rev 13:8 about the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

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narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1090
Germany NRW

 Question Rev 13:8 about the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


I have been grappling with this verse for a long time:

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Does the part "from the foundation of the world" relate to the Lamb or to those people who are not found in the book of life?

Was the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world or does it relate to those reprobates that are not found in the book of life from the foundation of the world?


The KJV sounds a bit ambiguous. The ESV and ASV clearly releate it to those reprobates.


 2018/7/13 15:04Profile
TMK
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 Re: Question Rev 13:8 about the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It is an awkward sentence structure in the version you quoted because it puts the phrase “lamb slain” in the middle.

Either the names were in the book from the foundation of the world, or the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

Neither makes much sense to me but the latter is less objectionable.


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Todd

 2018/7/13 22:18Profile
docs
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 Re:

It speaks of Christ as being the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world.

1 To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia

2 elect according to the foreknowledge (before the foundation of the world) of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: (I Peter 1:1-2)

18 knowing you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,

19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you (I Peter 1:18-20)

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory (I Corinthians 2:7)

23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God (before the foundation of the world), you have taken and crucified, and put to death (Acts 2:23)


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David Winter

 2018/7/14 7:56Profile
narrowpath
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 Re:

Yes, the Lamb was there and Abraham spoke prophetically about the Lamb that God would provide after God stayed him not to slay Isaac.
But was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world?


I see 2 problems with this explanation:
No. 1) It would mean that the atonement preceeds the fall of man. Then God must have forseen the rebellion of Satan and sin of Adam even before they were created.

I cannot think that Satan and Adam were predestined to fall right from the beginning because it would somehow imply that God had some authorship in sin.

I believe both Satan and Adam sinned because of their choice and not because of an inescapable predetermination.

1 John 1:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Problem No.2) It puts the crucifixion outside the realm of time.

 2018/7/14 10:48Profile
twayneb
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 Re: Question Rev 13:8 about the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Matthew 25:34, Ephesians 1:4, Hebrews 4:3

Study these verses and surrounding. The work of salvation was planned from before the foundations of the world. Jesus' sacrifice was not an afterthought, a reaction by God to man's "unexpected" sin. God created us, knowing full well the price that would have to be paid for redemption.


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Travis

 2018/7/14 11:53Profile
narrowpath
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 Re:

If the sacrifice was planned before creation, sin must have been taken into account, otherwise redemption would not be neccessary.

I believe that God had foreordained to put everything under Christ right from the beginning, before creation.

Satan was a perfect, beautiful angel before his rebellion. He did not carry the seed of destruction right from the beginning.

We are created in Gods image, God is sovereign and man is created sovereign just as God, to make choices.
Adam definitely had the ability to choose before the fall.
Sin must be the creatures wrong choice, not the creators will or plan.

 2018/7/14 12:13Profile
twayneb
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 Re:

narrowpath: Great comment: Sin did not enter by God's preordained will. But it did not enter without God's foreknowledge. In other words, Adam's sin was not a surprise to God and the provision had already been mapped out.


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Travis

 2018/7/14 16:35Profile
narrowpath
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 Re:

[narrowpath: Great comment: Sin did not enter by God's preordained will. But it did not enter without God's foreknowledge. In other words, Adam's sin was not a surprise to God and the provision had already been mapped out.]

Well worded!

 2018/7/14 17:27Profile
TMK
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 Re:

//Sin did not enter by God's preordained will. But it did not enter without God's foreknowledge. In other words, Adam's sin was not a surprise to God and the provision had already been mapped out.]//

This is a distinction without a difference. Very easy to say and it sounds good but it is nonsensical.


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Todd

 2018/7/14 18:14Profile
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 Re: a distinction without a difference





"This is a distinction without a difference. Very easy to say and it sounds good but it is nonsensical."

Good observation Todd.

I'm glad it was you and not me pointing that out.

 2018/7/15 0:24Profile





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