| Re: |
Nigel quoted in another thread...
"Secular music, do you say, belongs to the devil? Does it? Well, if it did I would plunder him for it, for he has no right to a single note of the whole seven. Every note, and every strain, and every harmony is divine, and belongs to us."
"If I thought I could win one more soul to the Lord by walking on my head and playing the tambourine with my toes, I'd learn how!"
Be careful of Booth, you might read he would plunder the devil for art, family and business too.
Sarcasm aside, do you ever notice we commemorate our heros of the past and kill our prophets in the present?
| 2018/5/7 23:32||Profile|
| Re: |
Totally agree Dominic, its Dominionism pure and simple. Folks should do a little research on Dominionism before stating an opinion. God is raising up an army of martyrs, lambs to the slaughter, not institutions that will take over and dominate this world. His Kingdom is not of this world. There is nothing more worldly than the desire for power and control and influence, this more than all the gold in the world has driven and corrupted men. Political men and religious men alike.............bro Frank
| 2018/5/8 0:50|
| Re: |
Please bring some definitive proof this is not the work of God.
Try the bible I have laid out verses such as matt 24 and 2 Thessalonians 2
| 2018/5/8 4:05||Profile|
| Re: |
Just as we pray for our leaders and for all those in authority, We are being sent out into whatever realm of society that the Lord has called us, to be light and salt. One of the greatest lies of the enemy is that Christians are not to have any influence in government, education and business.
The Welsh Revival literally transformed the nation of Wales for a season. That is what can happen, When God rends the heavens and comes down, and when His presence is manifested in the earth realm.
God has never changed His mind about the great commission. Wherever people are saved, nations can be transformed.
| 2018/5/8 6:52||Profile|
| Re: |
I believe we are talking past each other.
Like I said when I first heard the seven mountain strategy probably 10 years ago it had nothing to do with any end times scenario. It was simply a strategy to instill salt and light into saltless and dark cultural institutions. How can there possibly be anything wrong with that??
Now some of you are saying the seven mountain strategy is linked to dominionism and some strange end times conspiracy. That very well may be true as well and I would disagree with that version of the seven mountain strategy.
In other words, some of us are talking about one version and others are talking about another.
| 2018/5/8 7:26||Profile|
| Re: |
While it hasn’t quite been 10 yrs, maybe 6 or 7 since I became aware of 7 M/Dominionism and they are interchangeable in many cases. Basically different branding but a very similar “business model”.
Also where did the God of mercy go?
When did we stop loving others?
I mean honestly, what if you or your wife were “purged” out of the workplace by Christians? Not for being Christians but BY Christians..... let that sink in for a sec-
And who gets to decide who is Christian enough to keep their career?? And how much is enough and how much is too much?
And where oh where is the biblical mandate for this?
I know someone close who got caught up in this a few years back and it was sad,.... they def want your money so they can purchase property and “claim it for God” then develop it and sell or borrow against it to continue their real estate acquisitions... but neither Jesus nor Paul did anything like this... our King says His kingdom is not if this world:)
Edited to add; I def don’t mean to be part of any movement to bash other believers, even if they’re in error as we all are on something... I can say that I am not personally called to this ministry (7M) but as a member of the body of Christ I am called to speak truth IN LOVE and not use the sword to cut down others but to cut away the lies that so easily entangle... as a member of the body we are called to pray and intercede so perhaps our time may better glorify Christ in that endeavor:) after all He prayed we would all be one per John 17 <\\\><
| 2018/5/8 8:16||Profile|
| Re: |
I certainly have no loyalty to the idea and only heard it discussed once. It is possible I only heard part of the picture.
You are bringing things up that I had no knowledge of, like forcefully ousting non Christians from employment (not sure how this would be possible in today’s environment) but I take your word for it. Of course that would be improper. I thought it meant to be salt and light in the workplace and change it from the inside by making converts.
| 2018/5/8 8:57||Profile|
| Re: The seven mountain mandate is antibiblical |
The Bible talks immediately after the tribulation of those days it does not talk about a glorious church that has occupied the world welcoming Jesus back , the Bible talks about this world getting world getting so bad as in the times of Noah , Noah and his family were the only righteous people among a massive population of wicked people , God saved them through the ark
This is even stated in the early church fathers
This quote is, in a nutshell, the problem with the seven mountain strategy. For context, it is a doctrine that is being taught by those in the apostolic/prophetic movement. There are some pretty major foundational doctrinal issues with this movement. I am not claiming that people in this group are not saved. I know many who are radically in love with Jesus and have no reason to believe that most are not. However, there are also some foundational issues that I see with many in the movement that are leading them astray. Unfortunately, I have already seen these issues lead some that I know personally to a point that I fear for their salvation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with believers impacting people in their culture and trying to be influential in government, education, etc. We are to be salt and light. But the problem comes when we see ourselves as the anointed forerunners who are called by God to take over these areas and set up a kingdom for Christ to receive when He returns. It is not in agreement with any kind of plain reading of scripture. The 24/7 worship movement is an outflow of this idea as well. They misinterpret the tabernacle of David (Look up what it means in the New Testament...it is plainly stated), and believe that this worship movement is necessary to speak prophetically into the atmosphere to bring Christ back to earth again. Again, there is nothing wrong with desiring to worship God 24/7. At issue is the motive of that worship. What we do is far less important than why we do it. The right actions for the wrong motive are equivalent to the wrong actions.
| 2018/5/8 10:06||Profile|
| Re: |
Hi Dom: you said..
"Try the bible I have laid out verses such as matt 24 and 2 Thessalonians 2"
You realize how useless this is? Ive read Matt 24 and 2 thess about 100 time over the years, none of it demands me to repudiate prayer for Christian influence in any of those 7 areas.
You must also realize the utter laziness of just giving me a text with no interpretation or direction, have me read it and thereby assume what I think is going to match exactly with what you think...the substance of which these texts have nothing to do with?
You must also realize you are saying unless you have the right eschatology you cannot offer the right prayers or influence in the world?
Or maybe you are saying your eschatology forbids you to pray in such manner?
You might also realize that the charismatics and pentacostals are for the most part pre-trib rapturists that would agree with your eschatology but not your stance on the power of God's kingdom.
No, I think you have no real substantive argument against it, only an eschatological view that has no real weight against what they are seeking God to do.
As to claims of coercion and forced removal of people in various places...I need some actual direct quotations in context before I will believe that.
| 2018/5/8 10:09||Profile|
| Re: |
You realize how useless this is? Ive read Matt 24 and 2 thess about 100 time
You clearly havent!
The doctrine invented by Laurence Cunningham and Bill Bright is not just simply a prayer initiative.
THE SEVEN MIND-MOLDERS OF SOCIETY Both Dr. Bill Bright, founder of Campus Crusade for Christ, and Loren Cunningham, founder of Youth With A Mission, received the same revelation from God
around the same period of time: there are seven major realms of influence in society that shape the way we live and think. Kingdom-oriented people must invade these mountains of influence in order for the transformation of society to take place. These mountains are: • Home • Church • Education • Media (Electronic and Print) • Government & Politics • Performing Arts (including Entertainment and Sports) • Commerce (including Science and Technology).
Wallnau, Lance. Invading Babylon: The 7 Mountain Mandate (pp. 27-28). Destiny Image, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
If you note in this book it is not prayer it is transformation of society!
The whole aspect of influencing people for Christ is against the scriptures as we are commanded in scripture to preach the gospel!
There is something called the Law on Non Contradiction, if I say one thing and something completely contradicts me !
So if the Bible says something and a teacher or prophetess something that clearly contradicts what the bible says they are classed as a false teacher and a false prophet !
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
In Matt 24
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
it talks about that you shall be hated by all Nations for my names sake! this does not sound like the seven mountain movement as how can you influence society if you are hated by all nations for my names sake, this is Jesus we are talking about!
We as christian
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
This movement is not an eschatological view it is a view that is directly opposed to scripture!
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
It is a different Gospel! It commands us to influence areas rather than preach the Gospel!
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1 says that if any man preach any other Gospel let him be accursed! We are not commanded to influence the seven mountains we are commanded to preach the Gospel!
We were commanded to “occupy” until He comes (Luke 19:13 KJV). Occupy is a military term. And according to Kingdom values, occupation is always for the purpose of advancement.
Wallnau, Lance. Invading Babylon: The 7 Mountain Mandate (pp. 33-34). Destiny Image, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
This is clearly against scripture we are not commanded to occupy until Jesus returns!
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
How can you occupy when jesus returns he will destroy the Antichrist!
| 2018/5/9 5:22||Profile|