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 Dialogue in church this morning

Our service took a different tact this morning as was announced to the congregation a few days ago. Instead of a regular time of worship and a sermon, which no one has been complaining about, the service was opened up for member participation to discuss I Corinthians 14:26.

"How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification." (I Corinthians 14:26)

The scripture was read and it was asked what do you think this scripture means. It was an attempt at a dialogue - a conversation if you will. What should it mean for us as a corporate body? Does it have any bearing on how we have been doing our Sunday services? What does the word edification actually mean and how do we know it is happening? What occurs when this edification takes place? Following agreed upon rules when speaking, a open microphone was provided for members to ask questions and make comments. It worked pretty well as many members made comments and the usual sermon was put aside for this one Sunday.

I commented that I saw nothing in this verse of the preacher or teaching carrying the whole weight of the service by their sermon or teaching and perhaps pastors have become too weighted down each Sunday thinking their word has to make or make or break the service. If more participated and exercised their gifts perhaps we could ease the load on church leaders. The need for each joint and member to supply was commented upon and emphasized. If services were opened up a bit more it would also necessitate a greater amount of discipline from those sharing. Would they be sharing just to hear themselves or would they be dedicated to not tooting their own horn but seeking to edify the body itself. Overseers and elders should be free to keep a sane and dignified amount of order but let all things (all gift be shared) be done for EDIFICATION OF TYHE BODY. It was stressed and noted that the body with each joint supplying edifies itself through love (from Ephesians). None of what was shared was a call to do away with the preaching of the word but how can a time for the word and full member participation go together? Why would it be a bad things of someone asked a question during the sermon and the preacher could address the question before going on? Many think dialogue with many members sharing between the full body at corporate gatherings seems to have been more the norm for the early church than many modern formal structures and programs. Is relying upon the Holy Spirit for a bit more spontaniety each service such a bad thing?

How can time be set aside for regular preaching of the word yet also for allowing the Holy Spirit to manifest gifts as He will and directs? Under the direction of our leaders, we are trying to ponder and work through these things so we had a dialogue about this in our service this morning instead of the regular format. We did leave "edified."

What is the best way for I Corinthians 14:26 to be practiced?


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David Winter

 2018/4/29 14:50Profile
amajesticone
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Joined: 2016/3/10
Posts: 42
Massachusetts

 Re: Dialogue in church this morning

Oh, David, this is wonderful! A very BIG subject, but know that there are sources to glean from for "helps"and encouragement in meeting under the Headship of Christ, and letting the Holy Spirit live through the members of His Body to one another. The Cross is central, and learning to prefer one another and yield to one another takes time. I.E. the "talker" needs to learn how to "not dominate" (or be quiet) so the "quieter ones" can learn how to function and be a joint of supply, too. Hundreds of thousands of Christians meet this way and no two meetings are the same just like no two early churches were the same. Laying down the whole organized way has got to go in order for the Body to learn how to function "organically" and "spontaneously." "Organized" is a hindrance rather than a help, but....maybe....you may have to do that initially until all control can be given to the Head - Christ. It can be a bit scary :) It shouldn't be but initially it can be. And there may be blood ... but The Life overcomes.

This is a great website that I think would be a great help:

Christcenteredchristianity.com

I look forward to your updates!
💜
Mary



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Mary

 2018/4/29 15:53Profile
TrueWitness
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Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 522


 Re: Dialogue in church this morning

I remember at a church I attended in the past, they did not have 'Sunday School'. No, they had Foundations Class which was a 12 week program of study of key Bible doctrines which are central to New Testament living. The program was carefully crafted by the leadership (mostly the pastor) so as to avoid any doctrinal errors. You see, the leadership of that church did not want a regular Sunday School where appointed teachers taught what they felt the Bible says. No, if that teacher's interpretation of scripture deviated from what the pastor felt it should be, it was error and we can't risk any chance for error being propagated at the church.

So good luck with open-mic 'sharing' of teaching. I am also reminded of several church members who during small groups would drone on and on about stuff and would get diverted down rabbit trails and never would end their monologue on their own. Someone else would have to say, "That's good Charlie. It reminds me of the time the Lord...." so as to break away from Charlie.

-Daniel


 2018/4/29 16:05Profile
CalvaryCom
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Joined: 2007/9/29
Posts: 326
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 Re:

When I read that verse it always seems to indicate a small group, certainly not a mega church. The other verses limiting prophecies and tongues/interpretations (to two or at most three per category while other prophets JUDGE what is said) seem to only corroborate this. Lastly, here's a potential theological bombshell: what if the need for prophetic utterance and glossolalia had more to do with most 1st century Christians not owning their own Bibles---and therefore the need for information that they - not we - could not readily obtain? ALL things pertaining to life and godliness are found in the Scriptures. If I never heard another prophecy or tongue it would be no loss to me. Most of the modern variety that I have encountered is false and powerless.


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Alec

 2018/4/29 16:10Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5380
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 Re:

Telling the “microphone hogs” to relinquish the mike is surely one of the most vital “growing pains” that would have to occur.

And like Daniel said, how much tolerance would there be for divergent views on certain topics? That is another growing pain and perhaps with the leading of the HS these issues level out over time.

I am curious how churches that operate this way, which of course is how they should operate, deal with these sorts of practical issues.

Most people cannot imagine such a service so they might have to see it in operation first.


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Todd

 2018/4/29 16:13Profile









 Re:

Now, if anyone knows me, they will know that this for me is the most important crisis facing the Body of Christ. It really helps to know a little bit about the history of the early church and what it looked like. For the most part it would be in houses or for special occasions if there was more than one house gathering in a town or city, they would come together in a open field, especially if someone like Paul was coming. The gathering was just that, and there was a meal. Breaking bread meant just that, it did not mean a communion wafer and a ritulized affair. People were actually together, hanging out, singing hymns, sharing, giving testimony, asking for prayer. This thing called "the church service," is something that morphed out of that. Bottom line, it really was not that complicated, the most important aspect of the gathering was that the Holy Spirit was there, Jesus was preeminent.

Can we change this now? Not in any meaningful way. Maybe your part of a cell group or home group that your church has. Just keep in mind, that is actually church. The time is coming soon when the enemy will tear down every religious building in the world that will not bow down to him, only then I believe will the Body of Christ return to its roots, by necessity.

P.S Take the so called Pastor out of the churches in America and those who for so long have been mere spectators and not participators, would sit and not have any idea what to do.........bro Frank

 2018/4/29 18:38
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
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 Re:

Quote:
by docs
Is relying upon the Holy Spirit for a bit more spontaniety each service such a bad thing?

How can time be set aside for regular preaching of the word yet also for allowing the Holy Spirit to manifest gifts as He will and directs? Under the direction of our leaders, we are trying to ponder and work through these things so we had a dialogue about this in our service this morning instead of the regular format. We did leave "edified."

What is the best way for I Corinthians 14:26 to be practiced?


When you start yielding to the Holy Spirit, you WILL get push-back from many people, including the one who started this discussion.

How can time be set aside for this? You said it yourself, spontaneity. I've found the Holy Spirit doesn't do things on a regular basis... except show up!! :)

Getting directions from us or anyone else takes away all the fun of learning to follow Him! My sheep know my voice and none other will the follow!

God bless and He is forever faithful!
Lisa


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Lisa

 2018/4/29 19:09Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5380
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 Re:

//Maybe your part of a cell group or home group that your church has. Just keep in mind, that is actually church.//

This is very true- the most authentic church experiences I have had has been with relatively small prayer groups.


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Todd

 2018/4/29 19:16Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
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 Re: Dialogue in church this morning

Quote:
What is the best way for I Corinthians 14:26 to be practiced?



I think the way you described it is awesome. We had exactly the same thing happen in our fellowship on Wednesday evening. We had one lady who sat on one side and wept the entire service as God used what was being shared by different members of the body to convict her and convince her that He loved her and desired to know her. She came forward and totally surrendered her life to the Lord. There was a radical change in her life. Praise God!!!

I think though that we have to be careful about making too many generalizations. The work of the apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, and evangelist is to bring the body to the full grown maturity of a man of God. Obviously we need to teach the body, and obviously the body coming together in one meeting is probably the best way to do that. Remember the guy that fell asleep during Paul's all night sermon? Obviously the New Testament pattern is not strictly 1 Cor. 14:26 in the sense that all of our services should look like this.

I think 1 Cor. 14:26 deals primarily with the operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the body. Paul was dealing with a body that was seeing the manifestation of the gifts, but was not understanding the proper way to order those gifts. In the preceding verses, he deals with some of their mistakes. Then he says, "How should it be then? When you come together and everyone has something to contribute, it should be done with edification in mind. He then goes on to show the proper order so that all might be edified. I don't think he was so much giving a model for a service, as much as he was giving a statement of motive behind what we do and the reason that order is necessary.

My understanding anyway.

Awesome to see God moving in your fellowship. It is exciting. I am seeing God move in ways that I have been reading in the Bible lately, and it is really revving me up spiritually.


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Travis

 2018/4/30 11:58Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
P.S Take the so called Pastor out of the churches in America and those who for so long have been mere spectators and not participators, would sit and not have any idea what to do.



Unfortunately, you are probably right. I remember hearing that at Azusa street, the people would come in and just naturally begin singing and praying. No one "started" the service. Wonder what that would look like for us today?


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Travis

 2018/4/30 12:00Profile





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