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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Temple of God

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savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
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 The Temple of God





2 Thessalonians 2:4

He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

"Temple" is naos which refers to the inner sanctuary of the Temple. The definite article before naos signifies not just any temple but the specific Temple.

In a parallel description Jesus warned
“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ("The Temple" 2Th 2:4) (let the reader understand)… for then (explaining why the Jews need to flee fast! - Mt 24:16-20) there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall. (Mt 24:15, Mt 24:21)

"For a Jew "the Temple" (ton naon) could only denote the holy place of the Jerusalem Temple, that portion into which the priests alone could lawfully go. The construction used (eis with the accusative) implies motion toward and indicates that by his impious act the man of lawlessness puts himself "into" God's seat in the inner sanctuary.


The simplest reading of the plain text is to interpret Paul as referring to a literal Temple of God. And yet many try to spiritualize "Temple of God" For example, Robert Gundry avoids the simple, literal reading of the text, reasoning that since Christian's bodies are characterized elsewhere by Paul as temples of God (which is of course true = 1Cor 3:16-17, 1Cor 6:19, 2Cor 6:16) "it may be better to think of the present text as meaning that “the human being of lawlessness” will arise as an apostate within the church." Note first that Paul does not say the Antichrist will arise but that he will sit! Then using Gundry's interpretation one might paraphrase "he takes his seat in the temple of God" as "he takes his seat within his body the temple of God." That does not even make good sense! As Richard Mayhue says "Figurative meanings for temple are impossible since the lawless one actually enthrones himself." It is amazing to me the nonsense that is accepted when one refuses to accept the plain sense of the text (Text read literally) especially when such a reading makes good sense in context (Keep Context King).

 2018/4/16 21:41Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
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 Re: The Temple of God

/Then using Gundry's interpretation one might paraphrase "he takes his seat in the temple of God" as "he takes his seat within his body the temple of God." That does not even make good sense!/

I have never quite thought of it that way but it makes sense (or no sense). I believe this passage from II Thessalonians 2:4 is referring to a literal Temple.

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation' spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),

16 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." (Matthew 24:15-16)

In keeping with literal, plain and common sense interpretation versus over spiritualization, if a real abomination takes place in a real Temple by a real man, how should the following verse 16 be interpreted? JUDEA is in Israel.

In this regard, what of the view that Israel has become irrelevant and will have no part to play whatsoever in a end time scenario? Literally speaking, you have to be in JUDEA before you can flee from JUDEA. Titus performed no abomination in 70 AD by declaring himself to be God in the literal Temple. He tried to keep his troops from destroying the temple and once it was burned it is said he climbed into the temple through a window. Nero had died three years before these events. So I believe we can rightly look for this event to be yet future in a literal Temple in a literal Judea. The amazing thing is that this future scenario was not possible for nearly two thousand years but now Israel and Judea rare full again of Jewish residents. We have come full circle and the abomination has not occurred which ends in the coming of Christ recorded in Matthew 24:31. Why would a literal interpretation of Matthew 24:15 be followed by a spiritual interpretation of Judea as found in Matthew 24:16. That makes no sense!

Blessings.


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David Winter

 2018/4/17 9:33Profile
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 Re:

David,

As you know Luke replaced the term “abomination that brings desolation” with:

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
Luke 21:20

I was curious what you do with that.


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Todd

 2018/4/17 9:56Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
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 Re: The Temple of God



So...to the futurist, none of the verses mentioned had any relevance to the hearers. The "you" wasn't them!

Hey... Fooled ya! None of this applies to ya'll. It's for them people far off in the future in a new land. I really didn't wanna tell ya because then it might not have seemed like the urgent message that I made it out to sound like.

Carry on my _______ son.

Peace when we are done.

Bless the Lord

 2018/4/17 11:30Profile
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 Re:

So who sat in the Temple in 70 AD and proclaimed himself god above all gods? Certainly not Nero nor Titus.

If the tribulation of those days was "the" great tribulation that was to surpass all others, such as never occurred, then where is the physical resurrection of the dead that comes at the end of this tribulation at the last day?

1 At that time Michael shall stand up, the great prince which stands guard over the sons of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation (compare with Matt 24:21) even to that time, and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one who is found written in the book.

2 And many of those who sleep in the earth of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:1-2)

This great tribulation, a time of trouble such as never was or shall be after it, is followed in close proximity of time by the resurrection of the dead - "many who sleep in he dust of the earth shall awake."

Daniel 12:1 describes the final time of trouble and the very next verse, Daniel 12:2 describes the physical resurrection.

I'm pretty sure the resurrection of the dead did not occur in 70 AD. Nor did Nero or Titus go into the Temple now destroyed and proclaim himself god above all gods. Why would one go into a temple thrown down and burned with fire to declare himself god above all gods? Meanwhile, to say all has already occurred makes it a necessity to spiritualize the resurrection which Daniel nor Christ ever came close to doing.


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David Winter

 2018/4/17 12:53Profile
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 Re:

/As you know Luke replaced the term “abomination that brings desolation” with:

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
Luke 21:20/

He replaced it?


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David Winter

 2018/4/17 13:00Profile
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 Re:

15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Matthew 24:15-16
—————
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it,
Luke 21:20-21

Conclusion: Luke, an inspired writer of scripture, seems to say the Roman army was the abomination that brings desolation.


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Todd

 2018/4/17 13:40Profile
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 Re:

I had a question for you Todd, David writes........

"If the tribulation of those days was "the" great tribulation that was to surpass all others, such as never occurred, then where is the physical resurrection of the dead that comes at the end of this tribulation at the last day? "

My question is simply different. It is estimated that just over 1 million Jewish people were killed between 68 and 70ad as the Romans crushed Israel and destroyed the temple and their system of sacrifice with it. We both know that in WW11, over 6 million Jewish people were slaughtered. So how could the slaughter of 70ad be the tribulation that surpassed all others if it was surpassed 70 years ago? Just wondering what you made of those historical facts?.......bro Frank


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Frank

 2018/4/17 13:46Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
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 Re: Jesus said to them...




Matthew 16:27,28
“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and WILL THEN RECOMPENSE EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Luke 9:26,27
For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in his own glory, and the glory of the Father, and of the holy angels. But I tell you of a truth, There are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Mark 8:38,9:1
“For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
And Jesus was saying to them, “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”

 2018/4/17 14:05Profile
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 Re:

What does Daniel 12:2 mean to you?

What resurrection (coming right after a time of trouble such as never has been - Daniel 12:1), is Daniel 12:2 speaking of?


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David Winter

 2018/4/17 16:21Profile





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