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MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re: Bear

Thanks


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Mr. Bill

 2018/5/31 19:36Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1092
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Sing a little louder;

That video is in my opinion an accurate display of Christians living in fear.

Whether it be cattle cars full of Jews or Bus loads of sinners going to a football game it rightly depicts so many Christians who cannot for fear or will not for comfort sake venture their safety or comfort for those in dire circumstances.

The old man's empathy for the Jews on their way to death camps comes across very strong. The Old man's vacancy from expressing faith, prayer or trust in God is the antithesis of biblical Christianity. We are not powerless, though we may feel like it. We are not helpless though in our own strength we could not conquer such a fascist regime.

I get the point of the video, doing nothing, sitting in silence and fear...and then drowning out the cries for help with 'louder singing' is just one of the ways to avoid the feelings the Jews had. I was hoping to see them all bow in prayer, I was hoping for some act of faith, but none was shown. The little boy's curiosity and concern drew him face to face with a victim; I understand tears are all that can be done for the Jews, but there were other men, those who hazarded estate, freedom and their life for the sake of these persecuted ones.

The video... as powerful a statement as it made was packed with emotional desperation as it was devoid of true Christian compassion. Faith operates by love, but human empathy however strong and poignant the depiction has nothing to offer but inability. This video pointing at Christians rose no higher than the fearful Christians sitting in the pews.

It pointed a finger at those pew-sitters and there be few that would justify them. But what the video didn't offer was a depiction of Jesus overcoming fears, overcoming a march to death. We see humanity in its darkest moments, evil triumphing in its progress toward dehumanizing everything with godless ideologies...but that darkness being depicted and the internal condemnation we feel towards turning a blind eye to the persecuted...or the lost, or the destitute and poor is at best legalism. The consistent Catholic cannot escape it.

I rejoice in such a powerful video demonstrating the failings of human nature, but I hate it in the same measure in that Jesus is left out of the equation, he is absent from the hearts of a congregation where the word is straightforwardly being preached. Even the preacher couldn't shift gears away from the 'order of service' to pray or direct the congregation to render aid to others.

In the end, I get a powerful gut punch with nothing more said to me than..."haunting nightmares of fear and powerlessness". This is not what Jesus taught his disciples or are we to teach one another.

For all its emotional power and poignant depiction of suffering...we Christians can do nothing without a resurrection, a new life, a new hope, a new power. This was devoid of that power and as such makes the Christian feel bad for himself or point his finger at others. The gospel message was missing.


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Marvin

 2018/5/31 20:27Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 649
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." John 13:35

Jesus Christ loves all christians in every country, persecuted or not. The mark of a true disciple is love; love for God and one another. Blaine, there are many true christians in America and Canada (I'm one of them). Every christian is called to deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Jesus. In some countries, physical persecution and martyrdom is more common than others. That is their cross. In western countries, christians face loneliness, isolation, family disowning them, gossip, slander etc. Even if a christian is never beaten, tortured or martyred it does not make them any less of a child of God.

I support the church in restricted nations, but exactly how is between me and Jesus. Please remember the Holy Spirit will never browbeat or condemn us, He always convicts us in love.

Brother, might I suggest you take a couple of days break from sermonindex (maybe all social media)? Just to get alone with Jesus and hear His voice, feel His love, just put everything else aside, all your cares, spend time in His presence and let Him renew you.

God bless you friend.


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2018/5/31 20:47Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1092
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

What makes me want to pray? Is it the terrified looks of those sitting in the pews, knowing Jews are in those cattle cars? Or it the likes of Corrie Ten Boom and her testimonies of faith, victory and answered prayer?
Was it the regretful old man that could not get past his shame and guilt over saying nothing, powerless against the Nazi's? Or is it Dietrich Bonhoeffer and his testimony and his sermons, standing against tyranny?

The point of such demonic and inhuman cruelty is to erase hope from the soul of man. It's either join-em or be killed by-em, that's what men do when hope of anything better is ripped from their hearts.

As Corrie Ten Boom was quoted earlier..."you cannot photograph suffering only its results."

With no offense to Corrie intended I would add "you cannot photograph faithlessness, only it's results"

We do not draw faith from faithlessness, or hope from hopelessness. What we can do is see what faithlessness and hopelessness does in the face of barbarity and cruelty...It choses to save it's own skin.

It's because of the acts of Christians in the midst of these terrible circumstances we can know that God answers prayer, God hears and supplies, God cares and loves. It's the Corries and the Bonhoeffer's among many more the spur us on to prayer and intercessions.

Im not hating on the video for those of you who cannot see my point, I am saying a message/video like that which leaves out the gospel cannot obtain the righteous life it implies is needed.


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Marvin

 2018/5/31 20:55Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re: Nigel and Marvin.

Thanks


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Mr. Bill

 2018/5/31 21:06Profile









 Re:

A few will hear the cry of the persecuted. A few will seek the Lord in terms of how to come and strengthen them. To strengthen those in the shadow of the cross.

But many will turn a deaf ear and be absorbed to their American, materialistic lifestyle. Basically this is the American evangelical church. What our brother Frank calls Christsedom. They will reject the cross of Christ.

All I can say is God have mercy on the American Church who remains silent and deaf to the cries of their persecuted brethren.

Blaine

 2018/5/31 22:56









 Re:

If I remember correctly it was only a few out of the German Lutheran Church who formed the Confessing Church. This was the church that Dietrich Bonhoeffer was part of. This was the church that spoke out against the slaughter of the Jews. If I remember the accounts correctly many of their pastors and members were were imprisoned and martyred by the Nazi regime.

But it has been those few saints who have heard the call of Jesus to go outside the camp and bear the disgrace of Jesus on his cross. It has been those few saints who have heard the call to come out of Babylon and be separate. These saints go by names such as Confessing Church, Remnant Church, Pilgrim Church, etc. But they are known by one thing. They have left the organized church to embrace the cross of Christ.

I might add that such saints who have left the organized church have been persecuted by the organized church. This happened with Anabaptist brethren during the Reformation. These saints were persecuted by both the Catholic and the Reformed Church. Sometimes the armies of the Catholic and the Reformed churches would come together to persecute and kill the Anabaptists.

I believe in the not-too-distant future it will be in the organized Evangelical American church that will persecute the true saints of God. Those who have left the camp and embraced the cross of Jesus. But it will be these few who will cry out for their persecuted brothers and sisters. For they have entered into the sufferings of Christ.

But then only a few will understand what I'm posting here.

Blaine

 2018/5/31 23:10









 Re:

Bro Bill writes.......

"I've prayed about this and prayed about it, and God has spoken to me and told me it's ok to get upset and let your feelings be heard, so I posted my feelings, and if I'm wrong, blame God!"

Bill, I urge you take this back. "Blame God," really?? God told you it was okay to indulge your flesh? That is scary brother. Take it or leave it. At the very least God should be left out of our petty squabbles............bro Frank

Maybe the moderator should shut this down before anything else is said and blamed on God.

 2018/6/1 13:05
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re: Brother Frank

Thanks


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2018/6/1 13:58Profile









 Re:

/// 
Sorry, my last post was pretty vague, what I meant to say was, please re-read my other post and tell me if there's anything in that post, that shows ANY disdain for any of the persecuted brothers and sisters.
here it is again, now read it very slowly.
///

/// 
I believe everyone of the ridiculous persecution threads should be close down, they do NOTHING to edify the body of Christ.
///

I believe a disdain has been shown to our brothers and sisters in the shadow of the cross.

Dear God have mercy on those who despise your persecuted bride.

Blaine

 2018/6/1 15:52





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