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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Preachers Whom I Respect and Follow by Zac Poonen

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StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 907
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Hey brother Bill,

My comments are not aimed at anyone in particular.
I just got the impression that there are undercurrents in the conversation, not against the article in particular but against Zac Poonen. If I am wrong forgive me.
I don't know him or his ministry well enough to judge or examine it.

What he seems to be saying is that, according to his personal judgement as a mature servant of God, these are the characteristics he looks for in anyone saying they are men of God.

When I speak of "the so-called men of God of today" I do not refer to legitimate men of God fulfilling their ministry faithfully and mostly quietly, I refer to those who advertise themselves and promote themselves as " God's anointed man of power for the hour, but when scrutinized fall far short of the requirements set by Paul for pastors and overseers. Just because you have an itinerant ministry and do not directly oversee God's flock does not mean you must not fulfil these requirements.
Wouldn't the church of God be in a better place if we followed these rules?

Zac speaks of " preachers" he respects and follows. By implication he is sort of suggesting we do the same, however he clearly says those HE respects and follows, referring to preachers, who are leaders in the church and are certainly examined and judged by a higher standard than " normal" Christians not in leadership positions and not desirous to be teachers in the church.

In any case, the characteristics he sets forth are worthy of imitating and following for all believers, not only leaders.

Blessings,


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William

 2018/2/13 13:20Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 693
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: Being an Example


Brother Sree: Forgive my mistake, I mistakenly assumed you were referencing to me. Since you were not, it is I who biffed it.

Your last post well worthy of repeating is a great statement of what it means to be 'not there yet, but seeking to be matured'.

Thanks for the clarification.

The article by Brother Zac is a good one, I just didn't like the narrowness of 'who gets respect' when in fact you should receive respect by reason of the love of God in working in us.

Your excellent post depicted the very man that may not fit Zac's criteria yet displays every characteristic of a man who should be respected.

I thank God for his Spirit in you brother Sree.


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Marvin

 2018/2/13 15:36Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 993
Germany NRW

 Re: The Preachers Whom I Respect and Follow by Zac Poonen

I listen to Zac a lot and met him in person.

I find this one passage about receiving money a bit difficult:

[2. He must be one who never asks anyone for money – either for himself or for his ministry – and who has a simple life-style. If he does receive any freely-offered gifts (like Paul occasionally did – Phil.4:16-18) he will receive them only from people who are wealthier than him – and never from anyone poorer than him.]

Jesus recommended the widdow in Mark 12:41-43. Surely she was very poor and some of those who received from her must have been wealthier than her.

Can you imagine a pastor going back to the widdow saying, please keep your money for yourself ?

If I were a levite at that time, I would take that penny and keep it as a souvenir, so that everytime I see it, it reminds me of the generosity of the widdow.

Zac takes a strong stand against pastors or church elders taking a salary. He states that this a particular problem in India, yet I do think it is legitimate for some elders or pastors to be fulltimers and take a salary.

I see myself as a tentmaker and support myself for the work in our little town and do not take any money. However, I think it is not right to make it an universal rule by which all have to abide.

Most of the preachers featured in SI are fulltimers and supported by funding I guess.

We do good to support evangelists and church planters in foreign countries.

I support an evangelist in Eastern Europe. He works full time harvesting souls wherever he goes and I am glad that I can take a little share in it.


1 Corinthians 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

 2018/2/13 15:37Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1587


 Re:

Quote:

Jesus recommended the widdow in Mark 12:41-43. Surely she was very poor and some of those who received from her must have been wealthier than her.



It is a good point. I always used to wonder about this incident. But I do not think it is applicable in this context. Jesus did not ask the Widow for money. Neither did he accepted money from her for his ministry or personal expense. She only offered her coins to the temple.

I think the point Zac is making here is, people who ask money openly but live a luxurious living themselves. For example most of the television preachers who ask money in their shows live a wealthier life style than most of them who offer money to their ministry.

I am personally part of a Church that does not pay anyone for any service. But I work closely with other Church pastors who are paid workers, I have nothing against them.


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Sreeram

 2018/2/13 17:15Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 693
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: another picture, another perspective

Narrow: It might surprise some that, our ministry to the poor and impoverished includes their giving. It's not that I need their money, in fact I don't take any from the ministry and never have, but that is a personal preference of my own.
The reason we want the poor and impoverished to give is for their own understanding that their littlest gifts are important to God and go to their own people. You no doubt know that my plane ticket overseas costs more than many could give in a decade. But we do not want our brothers and sisters overseas to see us as the 'great white-American hope'. We are not, Jesus is their hope, we are not their healing though we bring in doctors, we are not their comforter though we bring in clothing, we are not their salvation though we preach Jesus. From the outset we endeavor to teach them that Jesus is ever present, ever willing to help, ever able to meet their needs long after we are gone.
To some, they are jaded by reason of past exploiters that greedily pocketed their monies in order to tell them they qualify for blessing because they received some tithe from them. Now that they don't tithe they are left with that ole Malachi curse and expect nothing from God because if you don't give you don't get. We do not preach tithing, we preach Jesus as their sole means of support, their giving is like our giving out of our willingness to express love to Jesus Christ.
The trips we make, the clothing, medical, gospel or benevolent aid they receive is all given for Jesus Christ.
By this we set the example, live the example and yet "take from the poorer-than-ourselves" because God is teaching us how to better aid the poor.

Jesus taught us the widow you mentioned gave 'more than all of them' not because Jesus is speaking of a ratio of gift to income, but because her giving represented 'her all'
As we preach we want everyone to give their 'all' to God.

So, without any apologies we recommend the poor give, the impoverished share, the lowest of the low learn to open their hand.
No doubt along the way, someone who makes less will give to someone who makes more and it will be God who is orchestrating it to be done.

It isn't that Brother Zac is wrong in the limited view he has taken, I fully agree, but only within a specific context, not as a universal requirement that if violated is tantamount to sin.


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Marvin

 2018/2/13 17:41Profile





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