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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5422
NC, USA

 Re:

Fletcher-

Are you saying that in those verses “discerning the body” means the Church (ie those who make up the body of Christ)?

I have never taken the phrase that way and I was curious if that is what you meant.


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Todd

 2018/2/10 13:27Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1307
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Dear brother they are one in the same:)

The Lords body= Christ’s body= church

... and not just figuratively
So simple I walked/read right past it for years-

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

It is the mystery hidden for ages revealed.... now the question comes back to square one, do we believe?
Do we believe God is who He says He is?
Do we believe God has accomplished what He claims to have done through Christ Jesus?
Do we believe we have victory?
Do we believe we have been imbued with power from on high?
Do we believe we are reconciled to God through Christ?
Do we believe we are in union with Christ?
Do we believe we are in Christ (presently) seated with Him at the right hand of God?
Do we believe He has given us all things pertaining to life and Godliness?
Do we believe in Jesus Christ?
If we really do then,..
Our actions will align with His will
Our life will reflect His righteousness
Our faith will illuminate the way
Our fellowship with the saints will facilitate unity
Our words will be His glory and His words our food

Here we are 2000+ years out and we are weaker not stronger...
we were given to be the lights of the world yet we fight among ourselves
We make excuses for ourselves whilst condemning others
Daily we fail His grace and act as tho it’s normal, expected/inevitable even!!??
It’s no wonder we are weak and sickly,...


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Fletcher

 2018/2/10 15:38Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5422
NC, USA

 Re:

But in the context of communion in 1Cor 11 it seems Paul is talking about taking communion in an irreverent manner by not properly discerning the body of Christ, ie His body as represented by the elements of communion.

“Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.”
1 Corinthians 11:27-31


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Todd

 2018/2/10 16:13Profile
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1307
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Brother Todd,
Yes of course, but that includes the members of His body...
So, He was broken- so were you...
He died- so did you
He was raised- so were you
His death=yours
His resurrection=yours
Hence, “the life I now live, yet not I but Christ” Gal2:20
So when Paul speaks about discerning the body, he’s pointing us to the appropriation of Christ’s victory by faith... meaning if we miss what was accomplished by Christ on the cross, we will miss the value of the resurrection as it applies to us presently= communion:)
Else how could it possibly affect our physical disposition?
Does that help to illuminate the correlation?


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Fletcher

 2018/2/10 17:44Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

I always understood it in context as to how we treat others in the body of Christ,ie other members, and wrapped in that was also the warning to those who would take communion with unconfessed/repented of sin. That the very communion could bring judgement on some.


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D.Miller

 2018/2/10 19:36Profile
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1307
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Brother D.
Yes and Amen!

“For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:”

“Do unto others as you will have them do unto you”
“Forgive just as you have been forgiven”
“Love others as you love yourself”

Wether it’s repentance, giving a cool glass of water, prophesying, ministering or whatever it is God has us doing,... communion with God is always contingent on obedience. When we are obedient we are IN communion with whom ever we are obeying. In the acts of obedience our lives are yielded, we become literally living sacrifices. Which is why Paul tells us to “be ye renewed in the spirit of your minds” because we may in fact be acting obediently to God but not discerning the body, appropriating the glory of Christ’s victory by faith- if our minds are not renewed then we are open (moreso) to distractions and lying deceptions which in turn will, if left unchecked, will produce sickness. Remember the battle may be “for” our souls but the battlefield is “in” our minds!

Read slowly with special attention to verse 21:)

For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.



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Fletcher

 2018/2/10 20:15Profile
BranchinVINE
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 657
Australia

 Re:

Dear brother Miller,

This is how we are to examine ourselves:

2 Cor. 13:5 (NASB)
-----------------------
Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test?



1 John 3: 6 -- No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.


If Christ is living in us, our lives will be right.

If Christ is living is us, our relationship with other members in the body of Christ will be right.



Christ lives in us through faith.

Eph. 3:17 -- …… that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith……



Phil. 3:8-12
------------
…… that I may gain Christ,
and may be found in Him,
not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law,
but that which is through faith in Christ,
the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings,
being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect,
but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.


Col. 1:27 – …… Christ in you, the hope of glory.


2 Thess. 2:14 -- …… He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.



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Jade

 2018/2/10 22:53Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5422
NC, USA

 Re:

Fletcher and Dohz-

This is a tough one because I cannot argue and agree with what you say about the body of Christ.

**But** in this instance and in this specific passage of scripture I think you are taking it beyond where it was intended by Paul. If you read carefully he is specifically talking about Christ's body-- not the Body of Christ.

From Matthew Henry:

The Corinthians came to the Lord’s table as to a common feast, not discerning the Lord’s body—not making a difference or distinction between that and common food, but setting both on a level: nay, they used much more indecency at this sacred feast than they would have done at a civil one. This was very sinful in them, and very displeasing to God, and brought down his judgments on them: For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. Some were punished with sickness, and some with death. Note, A careless and irreverent receiving of the Lord’s supper may bring temporal punishments.


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Todd

 2018/2/11 8:48Profile
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1307
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Todd

I totally understand what you are saying and offer no contention- I would however offer this; be reminded that this was one complete letter, (without the study guides of chapters and verses) so if we were to back up even one “chapter” and read through the “chapter” after the text in question, I have found it to provide a more comprehensive context for what Paul and ultimately Holy Spirit, is trying to get across-

(For me) there is a theme or point that is consistenty reiterated in a number of different ways, this point being our identity as the body of Christ and in the middle of this teaching is placed “chapter” 11- which (for me) necessitates it’s inclusion in the overall point or theme being transmitted.

For example, in chapter 10 we read;
15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

I hope this helps dear brother and your patience and gracious disposition are not only appreciated but serve as a fine example:)
It’s not easy for many to disagree without being disagreeable but you do this quite admirably-


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Fletcher

 2018/2/11 11:38Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Jade

Do you hold to the doctrine ofSinless Perfection?


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D.Miller

 2018/2/11 13:55Profile





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