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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What is being said out there?

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Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 817
Snoqualmie, WA

 What is being said out there?


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Website debunking christianity removed by moderator

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For those who do, I too read what our dissenters say about Christianity. Why? Because this think-tank is the current operations of Devilish powers that are given free movement in our time to work their deceptions. I like to know what the world thinks, what the worldly mind has decided is a cogent and powerful antidote to Christian thinking and scripture offerings.

In knowing these things, I am able to confront them in sermons, articles, posts, conversations, debates etc. I am able to prepare myself.


One of the main contributors to this blog was John Loftus he has now gone on, he died in his sin and in such a state as a self-proclaimed Christian-hater will meet the Christ who created him.

I encourage the strong and stable-in-faith to at least taste what is fomenting the disregard for Christianity today. You will find it amazing, sad, and maybe ironic as I do.

Over the years I have debated, challenged and by God's grace been a partaker in seeing the salvation of atheists.
As a general rule I do not spend much time working with professional Christ-rejectors knowing that throwing pearls before swine is unwise and unfitting for the seed sower. But I do read what they say because their PH.D's grant them some horsepower to pull numbers of unread and unlearned young people with them. Their positions in universities and their books serve to draw a deep line on the ground so that no 'religious inquiry' done by any student can avail anything but ridicule from their peers and professors and a null-future in scientific academia. Although the above statement is in fact false, it's touted as true to the ignorant student.

I was reading an old Atheist blog where the author had marshaled 10 questions that when asked would stop the Christian in his tracks. When I first got into counter-cult ministry and apologetic s those questions caused me heart-ache, not because there was something wrong with my faith, but I wasn't prepared to undergo a philosophical battle with someone who could use the bat of scripture to beat me up, yet it was nothing but a feather to him when I used it. This perplexed me...I didn't understand the double-speak nor did I understand or perceive at first the basis for their claims are fraught with defeaters ( self-referential contradictions)"the water was so cold it was steaming our vegetables." I didn't recognize those problems so in answering them, I didn't answer them but could only avoid them.

Ive learned a little since then, I've grown in my faith by the grace of God, these questions and books by such men fall like dominoes. This is a wonderful work of God. The Spirit of the Lord reveals the dark things, he unveils hidden things and brings to light the source of such questions.

I enjoy apologetics and I find it immensely helpful in weeding out the errors labeled "truth" or "fact" from the lost It frees me up to disengage a philosophical problems and present a scriptural response to human philosophy.

Maybe some of you will undertake gaining some insight from Christian apologetics. I know God has used it gloriously in my life, I have been blessed tremendously.

For others its not their thing and they need not spend 1 second worrying about it.


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Marvin

 2018/1/7 1:01Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re: What is being said out there?


Dear brother,

I understand your heart perhaps in posting this website link but I believe it is not suitable for all believers especially younger on this forum. Also we should not on purpose always expose ourselves to all the lies of the enemy, it is actually foolish to do so. Rather wash ourselves in the water of the Word and dwell in the light.

The spirit of the age is strong and can pervert the minds of people. Like a possible believer I met who was convinced in his mind that homosexual acts were not wrong. Morality is the first foundation to leave before even God's existence or importance is questioned. Behind all the clever arguments is a person with a life of terrible sins before a holy God.


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SI Moderator - Greg

 2018/1/7 6:39Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1821


 Re: What is being said out there?



Marvin,

When did this guy die, and from what?

 2018/1/7 6:51Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

The FBI counterfeit division learns to uncover the fake dollar by studying the real dollar. While on the streets in Canton we had some wonderful manifestation s happen, we were really ignorant unlearned men/women just sharing Jesus, there were many times we came across PhD s from a few of the local Christian colleges here about s. They would confront us with things we could not handle, what The Lord started to do was exposes their secret sins through The gifts of The Holy Spirit and eventually when they came out of the local bars they literally ran from us when they spotted us. I have always wanted to be like someone maybe Ravi Zachariah is someone like Dr. White or someone like that but it seems that even though I study while witnessing all that studying takes back seat and the Love of Christ with great joy along with gifting s seem to kick in and I become as it were very simple, sometimes it frustrates me and to thoughts who know me it humorous.
I do believe there is a need for apologetic s but I honestly will never be one, but I really admire thoughts who are.


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D.Miller

 2018/1/7 11:50Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3112
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
sermonindex.....The spirit of the age is strong and can pervert the minds of people.

Brother Greg, I might add that the spirit of maturity can also pervert the minds of people. I think this is one of the greatest issues we have here, some folks that post, post as if every believer is equal to them in their spiritual maturity.

We should all remember, that not everyone here is on the same level of learning, if you come here to help teach, you're not helping if you're trying to teach 1st graders 12 grade math. Maybe SI should have a dedicated forum for the biblical scholars, because it's really selfish to come here and talk above most everyone's heads. We all want to learn, to bad we all don't focus on learning more about Jesus, than most of the other stuff posted here.


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Mr. Bill

 2018/1/7 12:06Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 817
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Greg: I'm hoping that apologetics is not some taboo subject. Over the last 10 years God has seen fit to raise up outstanding Christian apologist to benefit the body of Christ, their work and understanding lay a good foundation for young believers to work from when confronting the issues attack the Christian faith.

I would also hope that there would be no need to justify apologetic topics on this website, though it is conspicuously obvious the lack of them is for a reason. Mr Bill seems to depict such reasoning in has recent post.

I fully agree such websites are scary to young Christians, but the cat is already out of the bag. I read college after college shutting its doors to any kind of Christian input, witness, academia. This doesn't happen because the Christians at the colleges are well versed in resisting the nonsense touted as 'science and reason'. They have had little introduction to it and in due course lies and falsehoods lay the foundation for skepticism and materialism.

To me, not discussing it, ignoring it, avoiding it is everything that we on this website criticize and condemn. Namely, avoiding the true teaching of the cross is openly anathematized...yet we have nothing to say about a failed and bankrupt ideology such as philosophical materialism? To me it is all the same.

For many who have done little to no investigation into the field of Christian apologetics, their knee-jerk reaction is to criticize apologetics as 'arguing folks into God' and 'useless debates' or the biggest joke of all...'we just want to talk about Jesus'.
This kind of mindset is one of the paramount reasons why the Church is in the state it is in, because 'Just give me Jesus' was confined to a comfortable continuance of hearing the safe and common sermons we have all heard before. But the devil being wise to our little harmless get togethers knew that such a mindset and perspective on Christianity in a culture like our works exceptionally well in his favor.
"we want revival" no, we don't, we want comfort. We want revival, no, we don't, we want non-conflict Christianity. We want revival, no we don't we want to look nice, act nice and talk nice to the enemies of the faith when in fact this naive silliness only gives more space and time for demonic out-workings of humanist, materialist propaganda.

Edit to add, This is rhetorical, it is not directed at anyone.
"This doesn't sound like the nice Jesus of scripture". This is because I have no reason whatsoever to imitate a caricature of Jesus Christ you deem satisfactory.

Folks like John Loftus ( which I read was deceased but he not Thanks for questioning Savannah, I had read that he was, but when I went back to review the article it was no where to be found) Fake news? Sorry for the mistake, consider this a retraction.
Again Apostate preachers like John Loftus and Dan Barker who now become full time apologist for atheism ( though Dan's emphasis is mainly to debunk the New Testament) get a free pass? Really. A beat down on the W,O.F preachers is so easy but nothing to say about these two? It's these two that make in roads into our colleges, its not W.O.F. preachers per-se that are convincing youth to reject Christianity. It's our exploiters of the Christian faith that are used as the 'afterthought' example once they have been convinced of the errors of Dr. Barker and John Loftus.

If apologetics is off the table fine, I fully submit to what the website hosts consider best. I do understand that the condensed version of anti-theism as written by various atheist authors is way to much for a young believer. Yet, when will it be safe for these subjects to be read and known?

The spirit of this age is strong, but so Is Christ in me, who I read is greater in ME than he that is in the world. This is not a doctrinal assertion it is the truth of any genuine believer.
A Spirit of maturity does not pervert the minds of people, I dont know why someone has not called this an error. Maturity is "Christ-likeness". It is no different now than when Jesus spoke. Somethings he said were difficult for the disciples to grasp, but they were said, Peter said the Apostle Paul spoke of things that are hard to be understood. There is no avid bible student that walks away from the scriptures and says "yea, I understand it all"...instead we say with Paul "I see this whole thing as if looking through a glass darkly".
Apologetics is in my opinion simply attempting to do two things.
1. To show that human ideologies fail on their own account, they sink like the Titanic because of their own defeaters.
2. In showing the inevitable problems with those ideologies I am not in the least irrational, unthinking or foolish to look past them for other options.

Jesus is the final answer, he is the truth. When folk do not understand the purpose of apologetic s they seem to consider it a stand alone, something disconnected from the gospel message. I've not written anything on this website at any time that is not directly integrate-able to an apologetic answer or, that a sound apologetic response cannot be integrated into the testimony of Jesus Christ.


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Marvin

 2018/1/7 19:33Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3112
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Marvin said...When folk do not understand the purpose of apologetic s they seem to consider it a stand alone, something disconnected from the gospel message.

Marvin, I in no way condemn apologetic's, you probably draw the conclusion because of my wanting to see everyone here be able to enjoy the forums and be able to participate. Marvin, you can go to pilot's school and listen to the teacher all day long for a year, but if he doesn't start out with the basics, not everyone will learn to fly a plane. If the teacher starts out on his level of knowledge, I sure most of his students will be setting there with the deer in the headlights look. If you read my post, I also mentioned that it would be nice for SI to have a dedicated forum for all the Bible Scholars. Personally I don't think it's fair to try and teach a new christian, who wrote the book of Hebrews, heck maybe you don't even know the answer to that. Marvin, fire away at all you want to debate or teach, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with some of the threads that are so far out there, the new unlearned christian can't even participate, or ask questions, because to begin with they are probably clueless to what you're even talking about.

If you think I'm wrong, just go back into most all the threads and I promise you, you will see the same few folks posting in them, why do you think that is? My guess is because the're so deep, only God and a few others here might understand. If you don't feel like it's selfish to keep all the threads at a Biblical Scholar level, I guess carry on soldier.....By the way Marvin, I have a Bible that tells me everything I need to know, in a manner that don't involve debating. In my opinion, "most" debates lead to some animosity in most believers, folks that depend on their Bible don't have to ever worry about debating God's word, because he speaks the complete truth, were most debates end in skepticism for some. Is there a place for the Marvin's of the world, no doubt! but maybe this isn't one of them.


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Mr. Bill

 2018/1/7 20:38Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1821


 Re: Loftus not with Hitchens yet




"Folks like John Loftus ( which I read was deceased but he not Thanks for questioning Savannah, I had read that he was, but when I went back to review the article it was no where to be found) Fake news? Sorry for the mistake, consider this a retraction.
Again Apostate preachers like John Loftus and Dan Barker..."

_________________________

Thanks for clarifying that he's not deceased.

Some may think it's only a heartless christian that would say what I'm going to say next. But...truth be known...I was hoping you were right about Loftus. Of course I'd rather see him bowing before Christ, testifying to His amazing grace, and calling Him Lord, while he's here on earth. But I would not be grieving over the news of his death.

These apostates you mention, along with Hitchens(deceased 2011 - the same year as David Wilkerson and Steve Jobs) and Dawkins, are the closest thing to being the devil incarnate.

They all mock the God I love. Not that God needs my defense or moral support against these evil men and seducers. But when I listened to that Barker guy mock God the way he did, I thought I had heard the voice of the devil himself. I'd be lying if I told you that I would grieve if I heard that he'd been struck dead by an angel and his body eaten by worms as Herod in the book of Acts. The historian Josephus gives an account of this in his writings as well.

And no, I do not ask that fire come down out of heaven and devour them all. I know, that in due season, God will vindicate Himself and His people.

Your post was excellent Marvin. I'm encouraged to know that some are called to carry out this work you're doing. It is much needed. It all began in the garden, Eve being no match for the devil. That serpent hasn't changed his strategy. He is spreading his lies, and very few are armed with the shield against his fiery darts. Nor are they experienced with the sword of the spirit to cut him to pieces. It is a war of words. Jesus won in the wilderness, so must we!

May God bless your efforts Marvin -

NOTE: Don't think I put David Wilkerson in there with those others as being in the same category. I merely stated that they all died in the same year. I make this note just in case any might think such a thing. Their father was the devil, but God was David's father.

 2018/1/7 20:53Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3112
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Your post was excellent Marvin. I'm encouraged to know that some are called to carry out this work you're doing. It is much needed. It all began in the garden, Eve being no match for the devil. That serpent hasn't changed his strategy. He is spreading his lies, and very few are armed with the shield against his fiery darts. Nor are they experienced with the sword of the spirit to cut him to pieces. It is a war of words. Jesus won in the wilderness, so must we!


I totally agree! but I would also think there is a place and time for this teaching, where everyone has the ability to join in and can understand. My guess they're levels of Bible teaching, this is why I like to start out ministering to folks about the basics. Then when they feel it's time to move on, they can move to the next level, with someone else. We all have a purpose, none any greater than the other, we should all work together to bring the new christian up to the highest level, not start them out at the top level. I'm guess maybe some Bible Teachers don't consider levels of understanding relevant, but with any teachings, there is always levels.


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Mr. Bill

 2018/1/7 21:05Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 817
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Mr Bill: We are not on a different page, nor are we divided as to there being levels of understanding on any subject. You are correct, without foundations building the edifice is going to be disastrous.

Here is what I hope would occur.
If myself or someone says something that appears complicated, or contains terms unrecognized...all they need to do is ask, I am more than happy to explain the best I can.
If someone says "take me back to the beginning, I cannot see how you arrived here, I have no idea where you started from?"
I am more than happy to explain.
Questions like that should be asked so that as you said "we can all work together".

This is the wonderful difference between myself and Charles Spurgeon, or John Owens, or Jonathan Edwards...I am alive to respond to questions and difficulties just as you are brother Bill, God has set us here to aid in the growth of those around us, I want to grow, I want to hear what others say to me and to various others. Paul Washer preaches awesome sermons but who is here to dice them up? Who here is going to question or appreciate the doctrinal foundations from where he preaches from? It's us Bill, God has commissioned us to speak to our generation, and in this blessed forum speak on a wide variety of topics.

The nature of these forums do not lend themselves to a direct teaching format.
EXAMPLE.
Brother Bill Says: For the next 6 weeks I will be posting on the topic of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. So that within that period you present a cursory view, or detailed view or maybe a scholarly view of the Resurrection.

Ive yet to read any postings directed to the forum where someone undertakes to deliver in posted form the basics you believe are necessary to the readers visiting here.
What we do encounter is a casual engaging with doctrine and teaching where various ones express their own personal insights (and a great deal of them are quite good) and by this expose others to 'teaching' under the heading 'personal beliefs'.
The whole website is devoted to offering some of the greatest sermons from some of the finest preachers God has given to his Church.
Maybe there are some tiny few that have sermons on this site and will take the time to discuss their teachings with us. I believe Brother Bosch to be one.

It appears you really want this to gain an element of direct teaching from some approved sources. Men whom the moderators believe know Jesus and speak the truth of God.

I may not qualify for that category, but others might and maybe this is something that can arise as God directs Greg and others to provide a virtual venue for it. Maybe a whole other section in the discussion list.
Yet, in a place like this, normally the first thing you will hear is "Brother Marv, you are no Paul Washer, you are nothing like Allen Redpath or do you think to offer us what Art Katz has offered?
So in short my friend, the answer lay in directing the unlearned to various sermons already given so that they may listen to them...and cut out anyone from teaching anyone anything. What we have to offer is somehow inferior and no doubt questionable because you I have no reputation.

It is the paradox of edification, not a biblical one, but paradoxical all the same.


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Marvin

 2018/1/7 22:12Profile





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