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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What are the signs of the beginning of the Tribulation & What are the identifying marks of the Anti

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deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1409
Hemel Hempstead

 What are the signs of the beginning of the Tribulation & What are the identifying marks of the Anti

I am just interested `i know the bible it is these two questions ?

What are the signs that identify that we are in the tribulation and what are the identifying signs that Identify the Antichrist from the Bible?

I will try and compile all verses I know but I am tired


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/11/11 18:30Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
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 Re: What are the signs of the beginning of the Tribulation & What are the identifying

Hi delta,
Hope you are well.
I noticed when studying endtimes that their are many types of the ultimate Antichrist and Antichrist behaviour.
I noticed that the devil likes to count because of his insecurity and he particularly likes to count "Gods People".
So one of the identifing signs is that he likes to count,
Yours staff

 2017/11/11 22:08Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1409
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

The reason I wanted to deal with this subject it that there is so much misinformation on this subject.

I also have been looking on different sites and as most of the church is pre tribulational or was.

The subject of the tribulation is an ultimate reality. What I want to deal with is real life situations rather than biblical theory.

The tribulation could be ten years away or could be soon. If during the time of Jesus's first coming how much did the people at the time get wrong.

One of the ideas I have been questioning is the idea of the so called Seven Year Peace Treaty as there has been so many numerous peace treaties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_peace_process

I tend to think it is more renewing the Sacrifices on the Temple for seven years as that actually fits the biblical data more than a peace treaty.

Daniel 9:27

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

With the AntiChrist it is one Person it is a spirit as in the scriptures

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The beast is mentioned in singular when he goes into the lake of fire so that is why I conclude the fact that it is one person

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The other thing I questioned is the aspect of the Gog and Magog War

Ezekiel 38-39New King James Version (NKJV)
Gog and Allies Attack Israel

38 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh,[a] Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. 5 Persia, Ethiopia,[b] and Libya[c] are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops—many people are with you.

7 “Prepare yourself and be ready, you and all your companies that are gathered about you; and be a guard for them. 8 After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely. 9 You will ascend, coming like a storm, covering the land like a cloud, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.”

10 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On that day it shall come to pass that thoughts will arise in your mind, and you will make an evil plan: 11 You will say, ‘I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates’— 12 to take plunder and to take booty, to stretch out your hand against the waste places that are again inhabited, and against a people gathered from the nations, who have acquired livestock and goods, who dwell in the midst of the land. 13 Sheba, Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish, and all their young lions will say to you, ‘Have you come to take plunder? Have you gathered your army to take booty, to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great plunder?’”’

14 “Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it? 15 Then you will come from your place out of the far north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army. 16 You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me, when I am hallowed in you, O Gog, before their eyes.” 17 Thus says the Lord God: “Are you he of whom I have spoken in former days by My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied for years in those days that I would bring you against them?
Judgment on Gog

18 “And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. 19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: ‘Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel, 20 so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.’ 21 I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains,” says the Lord God. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.”’
Gog’s Armies Destroyed

39 “And you, son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh,[d] Meshech, and Tubal; 2 and I will turn you around and lead you on, bringing you up from the far north, and bring you against the mountains of Israel. 3 Then I will knock the bow out of your left hand, and cause the arrows to fall out of your right hand. 4 You shall fall upon the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops and the peoples who are with you; I will give you to birds of prey of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. 5 You shall fall on the open field; for I have spoken,” says the Lord God. 6 “And I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in security in the coastlands. Then they shall know that I am the Lord. 7 So I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not let them profane My holy name anymore. Then the nations shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel. 8 Surely it is coming, and it shall be done,” says the Lord God. “This is the day of which I have spoken.

9 “Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and bucklers, the bows and arrows, the javelins and spears; and they will make fires with them for seven years. 10 They will not take wood from the field nor cut down any from the forests, because they will make fires with the weapons; and they will plunder those who plundered them, and pillage those who pillaged them,” says the Lord God.
The Burial of Gog

11 “It will come to pass in that day that I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea; and it will obstruct travelers, because there they will bury Gog and all his multitude. Therefore they will call it the Valley of Hamon Gog.[e] 12 For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. 13 Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified,” says the Lord God. 14 “They will set apart men regularly employed, with the help of a search party,[f] to pass through the land and bury those bodies remaining on the ground, in order to cleanse it. At the end of seven months they will make a search. 15 The search party will pass through the land; and when anyone sees a man’s bone, he shall set up a marker by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog. 16 The name of the city will also be Hamonah. Thus they shall cleanse the land.”’
A Triumphant Festival

17 “And as for you, son of man, thus says the Lord God, ‘Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field:

“Assemble yourselves and come;
Gather together from all sides to My sacrificial meal
Which I am sacrificing for you,
A great sacrificial meal on the mountains of Israel,
That you may eat flesh and drink blood.
18
You shall eat the flesh of the mighty,
Drink the blood of the princes of the earth,
Of rams and lambs,
Of goats and bulls,
All of them fatlings of Bashan.
19
You shall eat fat till you are full,
And drink blood till you are drunk,
At My sacrificial meal
Which I am sacrificing for you.
20
You shall be filled at My table
With horses and riders,
With mighty men
And with all the men of war,” says the Lord God.
Israel Restored to the Land

21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.”’

25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”
Footnotes:

Ezekiel 38:2 Targum, Vulgate, and Aquila read chief prince of (also verse 3).
Ezekiel 38:5 Hebrew Cush
Ezekiel 38:5 Hebrew Put
Ezekiel 39:1 Targum, Vulgate and Aquila read chief prince of.
Ezekiel 39:11 Literally The Multitude of Gog
Ezekiel 39:14 Literally those who pass through

I tend to put that at the end of the millennium as to me I am amazed at the way that I used to view the Scriptures before with Pre trib eyes and now I question everything as to me the deception of this doctrine is the AntiChrist can pretend to be Christ and how many will fall for that if they do not know what to expect to look for with the Antichrist.

There is so much bad speculation regarding this subject and I find it is not good. When you only want scripture or early sources on this subject.

I have been almost asking a rhetorical question rather and I want to do a study of the data from the bible as hermeneutics does matter.

I have been recently upset with the aspect I have been against the pretrib view for quite a time and the use of apostatsy as the rapture in Thessalonians 2 I find abhorrent as it misses out the context of the actual passage where it talks about deception.

It has been hard because at the moment I go to two churches in which I do not feel happy at either as I so want a solid biblical church in which I can discuss the scriptures and not social things.

To me these two questions have been on my mind because reality is stranger than fiction and I think that most of the eschatology is brilliant fiction but does it work in a real world.

If this is a real world event and we move into the time of the tribulation, how would we know and how we would know this is defiantly the Antichrist and we are now in the time of the Tribulation.

I so need the Holy spirit.


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/11/12 12:15Profile
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Joined: 2016/12/9
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 the tribulation...

"THE RAPTURE: Many theologians are divided on this. I would hate to tell my kids & congregants, "Hey, don't worry about the coming tribulation you'll be out of here." But then have them see signs of the Antichrist and the one world government after my death. Not only will they start to doubt me and my teachings, but also the Bible itself. Pray for the rapture but be ready for tribulation."


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Evangeline

 2017/11/13 13:09Profile
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 Re: the tribulation...

I'm sure we will know when it is already here....


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Evangeline

 2017/11/13 13:11Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1405


 Re:

Matthew 24:15 is the greatest clue and sign to look for regarding the beginning of the tribulation. It's the sign of all signs to look for and these words from Christ's own mouth could not have been clearer. WHEN YOU SEE the abomination spoken of by Daniel the prophet. THEN will begin a time of trouble and distress such as never has occurred since there was a world nor ever shall after (see Matt 24:21). Christ on purpose left this all important sign minus any ambiguity or need of reinterpretation.

Let the reader understand.


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David Winter

 2017/11/13 15:00Profile
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Joined: 2016/12/9
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 heavy words...

"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.."

such a very heavy words from Jesus that we need to be prepared...


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Evangeline

 2017/11/13 15:44Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1409
Hemel Hempstead

 Re: heavy words...

What would you define as the abomination of desolation ?


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/11/13 16:00Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1409
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

I'm sure we will know when it is already here....

I dont think the tribulation is here !


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/11/13 16:00Profile
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 Re: What are the signs of the beginning of the Tribulation & What are the identifying


We must encourage people to "know Him" and have a personal relationship with Him. Those 27 people who were shot to death at church very well could have been pre-trib believers and none of them saw the unfolding of the end-time beliefs.

Approx 180,000 people die a day due to varying causes. I don't know how many are God-fearing Christians. It doesn't matter who the anti-Christ is or will be. If Christians do not know how to get through the week, how in the world will they survive any sort of tribulation in their life, let alone the anti-Christ?

The better question is how can I encourage those around me to be better men/women in Christ?

My two cents, bro!!
Lisa


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Lisa

 2017/11/14 7:41Profile





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