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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Ron B on the attributes of God - a must read! Please don't miss this.

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 Ron B on the attributes of God - a must read! Please don't miss this.

Ron,
Fogive me dear brother, but this is just so important, it needs a place of it's own.

Saints, this is from another topic here. Please take the time to pray, read, and meditate very carefully on what is presented below. Then give thanks unto God for brother Ron, a teacher that magnifies the Lord in what he teaches. Glory to God. Now the peice from the other thread:

******************
Do you recall the event where Moses beat the rock twice instead of speaking to it? This is the scriptural comment on the event;

And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. (Num 20:12 KJV)
We usually say Moses disobeyed (or spoiled the type) but the scripture shows that Moses failed to 'sanctify' the Lord 'in the eyes of the children of Israel', because he 'believed not'.

What can this mean? Moses did not adequately respect the word that God had spoken. This was 'approximate' obedience. Such obedience might satisfy another master but not God. Saul made the same mistake centuries after; approximate obedience because he did not honour in right measure who it was he was dealing with.

In the Lord's words at the beginning of the pattern prayer it is the equivalent of 'glorifying God as God' (Rom 1:21) Giving Him due honour. Ascribing to the Lord, greatness.

Clarke's commentary on this is significant too;
Thus it plainly appears that they did not properly believe in God, and did not honor him in the sight of the people; for in their presence they seem to express a doubt whether the thing could be possibly done. As Aaron appears to have been consenting in the above particulars, therefore he is also excluded from the promised land.
Peter uses lots of metaphors from the wilderness experience in his letter which includes the verse;
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (1Pe 3:15 KJV)
Adam Clarke comments:

1Pe 3:15 -
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts - To sanctify God may signify to offer him the praises due to his grace, but as to sanctify literally signifies to make holy, it is impossible that God should be thus sanctified. We have often already seen that ἁγιαζω signifies to separate from earth, that is, from any common use or purpose, that the thing or person thus separated may be devoted to a sacred use. Perhaps we should understand Peter’s words thus: Entertain just notions of God; of his nature, power, will, justice, goodness, and truth. Do not conceive of him as being actuated by such passions as men; separate him in your hearts from every thing earthly, human, fickle, rigidly severe, or capriciously merciful. Consider that he can neither be like man, feel like man, nor act like man. Ascribe no human passions to him, for this would desecrate not sanctify him. Do not confine him in your conceptions to place, space, vacuity, heaven, or earth; endeavor to think worthily of the immensity and eternity of his nature, of his omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence. Avoid the error of the heathens, who bound even their Dii Majores, their greatest gods, by fate, as many well-meaning Christians do the true God by decrees; conceive of him as infinitely free to act or not act, as he pleases. Consider the goodness of his nature; for goodness, in every possible state of perfection and infinitude, belongs to him. Ascribe no malevolence to him; nor any work, purpose, or decree, that implies it: this is not only a human passion, but a passion of fallen man. Do not suppose that he can do evil, or that he can destroy when he might save; that he ever did, or ever can, hate any of those whom he made in his own image and in his own likeness, so as by a positive decree to doom them, unborn, to everlasting perdition, or, what is of the same import, pass them by without affording them the means of salvation, and consequently rendering it impossible for them to be saved. Thus endeavor to conceive of him; and, by so doing, you separate him from all that is imperfect, human, evil, capricious, changeable, and unkind. Ever remember that he has wisdom without error, power, without limits, truth without falsity, love without hatred, holiness without evil, and justice without rigour or severity on the one hand, or capricious tenderness on the other. In a word, that he neither can be, say, purpose, or do, any thing that is not infinitely just, holy, wise, true, and gracious; that he hates nothing that he has made; and has so loved the world, the whole human race, as to give his only-begotten Son to die for them, that they might not perish, but have everlasting life. Thus sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and you will ever be ready to give a reason of the hope that is in you to every serious and candid inquirer after truth. Most religious systems and creeds are incapable of rational explanation, because founded on some misconception of the Divine nature.
“They set at odds heaven’s jarring attributes,
And with one excellence another wound.”
The system of humanizing God, and making him, by our unjust conceptions of him, to act as ourselves would in certain circumstances, has been the bane of both religion and piety; and on this ground infidels have laughed us to scorn. It is high time that we should no longer know God after the flesh; for even if we have known Jesus Christ after the flesh, we are to know him so no more.
What I have written above is not against any particular creed of religious people, it is against any or all to whom it may justly apply, it may even be against some portions of my own; for even in this respect I am obliged daily to labor to sanctify the Lord God in my heart, to abstract him from every thing earthly and human, and apprehend him as far as possible in his own essential nature and attributes through the light of his Spirit and the medium of his own revelation. To act thus requires no common effort of soul: and just apprehensions of this kind are not acquired without much prayer, much self-reflection, much time, and much of the grace and mercy of God.

_________________
His/yours
Ron B

 2005/6/23 8:06









 Re: Ron B on the attributes of God - a must read! Please don't miss this.

Oh dear saints of the Holy One,
If there is one thing that has been on my heart of late, it has been this subject above. We have lost sight of the holiness, the majesty, the wonder of our God, Who is without limit, measure, or border in His nature. Unless we can come to the place of deep comprehension of the above, we will not be able to come to the place of obedience and worship.
Oh how my spirit is groaning this morning. As there can be no image of our God, there is no grammatical arrangement of words in any language that can adequately provide the human heart with an understanding of our Almighty God.
Don't you really find it a pathetic blight in churches today that have for the most part lost their reverence? I do.
I have often pondered the scene where Aaron's son's offered an unholy fire unto the Lord. The FIRE of God bursting forth and slaying them on the spot. Wow. And the scripture said, "Aaron said nothing". NOTHING! How dare he say anything! Would you? My Lord and My God, it is just so difficult to imagine. How could you not fear the Lord and respect the fact that He is absolutely Holy and perfect and is to be held in reverence and devotion continually in our hearts after such a scene? Yet we often reduce Him to little more than a genie in a tabernacle. Just rub Him a bit when you are in trouble, you're sick, or your finances are in a mess. Is it just me, or do we need to get on our faces before God and beg for a much more broad view of this Supremity without limit, measure, or border? Oh God help us all today.
When I was in religion in my youth, when we would enter the "church building", before we would take our seat, we would bow on one knee because we believed that God was physically present in the bread in a small tabernacle on the altar. There was always at least one candle lit except during the time that Jesus was supposed to be in the grave during the easter commemoration.
We would not visit with our neighbor in "church". We would kneel in prayer. In other words, we respected and revered what we thought was the physical presence of God.
Are we not His tabernacles? Where is the reverence for His dwelling place. We don't reverence it ourselves, then we wonder why others don't. They cannot see any of His glory spilling forth from our vessels, why should they believe He is truly there? Come on somebody!
What happened to this fear and awe of God? It has all but slipped away. Is it any wonder that obedience is "optional" in this hour. As our brother stated above, God does not tolerate optional obedience. He didn't with Moses, or Saul, and so many more down through the pages of the bible and history. There is no compromise to God's law. Yet we seldom give it any thought, because we have lost sight of the consequences of disobedience.
Disobedience is sin. Sin is not a popular topic in this hour. It doesn't fit into "self esteem". Can somebody please find "self esteem" in the bible for me? I can't.
Beloved, we have been "set up", by the gradual degradation of our values and truth. We have let this happen and said nothing because those who have fed us this bunk did so in such a way as to appeal to the flesh. God's Word and commandments do not appeal to the flesh. CRUCIFY THE FLESH!
Oh that we might ask our Holy God to give us a spirit that is in awe of His grandure, perfection, and might. Oh that we would have such wisdom as to fear and tremble at just one thought of Who He Is and where He dwells. My God, we need to get back to preaching and discussing this continually. If people don't know God, how would you expect them to realize the necessity of serving and obeying Him?
Yes it is a conspiracy what has happened in our churches. Because it has happened in our churches, it is happening in our streets. Satan and his lies are behind it all. But we have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker. It's time to repent. It's time to turn around, and turn back to God. We've been on the right road, but we have been going the wrong way. Stop. Turn around...toward God, and like David, offer a sacrafice of praise every six paces until God has been restored to His proper place, not in Jerusalem, but in our heart. Glory be to God, now and forever more.

In fear and trembling,

Lahry

 2005/6/23 8:35
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Oh Amen and amen

Dear Lahry, truly you have struck where we are by bringing this forth. Though it ebbs sadly at times in the day to day noise of this present world, it is the cry of my heart. So much that we can get caught up in, so much that can flow far to easily from our lips or our finger tips, how much is really considered, with Him who we have to do...

Similarly, Diane elsewhere taps into the very same line that has stuck permanently:

Quote:
This is my take, God defines himself. He defines righteousness and justice. Any man who will say that God is not just is way off the track. You ask if there is anyone who will question God.

One of the main messages behind all of Katz' talks is how we need to "[b]know God as he, in fact, is"[/b]. This is what I have been about for the last year. Learning who God really is and how he thinks. I'm finding that my biggest problem has been having created God in my image. Now that I am allowing God to define himself to me and accepting him for who he is, I'm much more, shall we say, stable.

I have a friend who says he is an atheist. He gets really angry when he talks about God. I told him, "you're not an atheist. You believe there's a god, you just don't like who you think he is." And sometimes, neither do I. Love, Dian.


Referenced from:
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5953&forum=35#43897] I need hope[/url]

Lahry I couldn't agree more with all of this and just in part:
Quote:
Oh that we might ask our Holy God to give us a spirit that is in awe of His grandure, perfection, and might. Oh that we would have such wisdom as to fear and tremble at just one thought of Who He Is and where He dwells. My God, we need to get back to preaching and discussing this continually. If people don't know God, how would you expect them to realize the necessity of serving and obeying Him?


Brother I believe that if we did this more so many a discussion would go away or go under or at least take on a completely different perspective. Surely things need to be discussed and pondered and considered and if this market place of thought and heart is any indication and from long observance often the very wrestling out of expression is it's own healing balm... If we are but looking at it rightly. So much that is mere speculation and presumption, conspiracy, controversy over that which is unknown and at best an 'educated guess'. What of the [i]Lords[/i] controversy? Perhaps can save some space in redundancy: [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5722&forum=35#42244]Help! Confession vs repentance of sin[/url] It's still the same sentiment.

The beginning of the end personally and the 'about face' was A.W. Tozers' "Knowledge of The Holy". Forever indebted and may yet have opportunity to thank a Mr. Chip Ingram for it. Everything came to a head and struck, if I may wax here, into the very marrow of being. It defies expression and explanation often, but when truth gets fused there it is impossible to extract it. It so grabbed me and I it that I must know this and somehow understand it that the willingness to forget and let go of everything I though I knew was practically simple. What do I mean? It is well summed up in that incredible paragraph from Adam Clarke earlier.

Too much here to comment on, it all just resonates Lahry, so glad you found and brought this up, had not seen it. How many more gems like this out there that just get missed? Oh how I wish there was a searching through and pondering of thought expressed that just gets sidelined in a push and a rush for just ones own opinion. Don't mean to overstate it, am giving my own here. Just that there is so much that never sees the light of day... Came across another searching for just one word to apply here (never did find it).

A couple quick thoughts that have been percolating of late:

One, "the old paths": Taking Solomons fact of truth that "there is nothing new under the sun" into consideration have been musing on how that word "old" may more entail just 'forgotten', so much so that re-discovering all that God is, in fact as He is, practically becomes "new", so foreign these truths are to us in our day.

The other, am finding in prayer that [i]when[/i] the silence can be gained the instant and natural response is just worship.

Brother you have struck a cord here. Bless you.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/6/23 10:28Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Grasp

Repeating...

"Perhaps we should understand Peter’s words thus: Entertain just notions of God; of his nature, power, will, justice, goodness, and truth. Do not conceive of him as being actuated by such passions as men; separate him in your hearts from every thing earthly, human, fickle, rigidly severe, or capriciously merciful. Consider that he can neither be like man, feel like man, nor act like man. Ascribe no human passions to him, for this would desecrate not sanctify him. Do not confine him in your conceptions to place, space, vacuity, heaven, or earth; endeavor to think worthily of the immensity and eternity of his nature, of his omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence. Avoid the error of the heathens, who bound even their Dii Majores, their greatest gods, by fate, as many well-meaning Christians do the true God by decrees; conceive of him as infinitely free to act or not act, as he pleases. Consider the goodness of his nature; for goodness, in every possible state of perfection and infinitude, belongs to him. Ascribe no malevolence to him; nor any work, purpose, or decree, that implies it: this is not only a human passion, but a passion of fallen man. Do not suppose that he can do evil, or that he can destroy when he might save; that he ever did, or ever can, hate any of those whom he made in his own image and in his own likeness, so as by a positive decree to doom them, unborn, to everlasting perdition, or, what is of the same import, pass them by without affording them the means of salvation, and consequently rendering it impossible for them to be saved. Thus endeavor to conceive of him; and, by so doing, you separate him from all that is imperfect, human, evil, capricious, changeable, and unkind. Ever remember that he has wisdom without error, power, without limits, truth without falsity, love without hatred, holiness without evil, and justice without rigour or severity on the one hand, or capricious tenderness on the other. In a word, that he neither can be, say, purpose, or do, any thing that is not infinitely just, holy, wise, true, and gracious; that he hates nothing that he has made; and has so loved the world, the whole human race, as to give his only-begotten Son to die for them, that they might not perish, but have everlasting life. Thus sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and you will ever be ready to give a reason of the hope that is in you to every serious and candid inquirer after truth. Most religious systems and creeds are incapable of rational explanation, because founded on some misconception of the Divine nature."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The other day I heard a man pray this prayer: “Oh God, who art the truth, make me one with Thee in everlasting love. It wearieth me often to read and hear many things, but in Thee is all that I would have and can desire.” The Church will come out of her doldrums when we find out that salvation is not a light bulb only, that it is not an insurance policy against hell only, but that it is a gateway into God and that God is all that we would have and can desire. Again I quote Julian: “I saw that God is to us everything that is good and comfortable. He is our clothing; His love wrappeth us and claspeth us and all encloseth us for His tender love, that He may never leave us, being to us all that is good.”

Christianity is a gateway into God. And then when you get into God, “with Christ in God,” then you’re on a journey into infinity, into infinitude. There is no limit and no place to stop. There isn’t just one work of grace, or a second work or a third work, and then that’s it. There are numberless experiences and spiritual epochs and crises that can take place in your life while you are journeying out into the heart of God in Christ.

God is infinite! That’s the hardest thought I will ask you to grasp. You cannot understand what infinite means, but don’t let it bother you—I don’t understand it and I’m trying to explain it! “Infinite” means so much that nobody can grasp it, but reason nevertheless kneels and acknowledges that God is infinite. We mean by infinite that God knows no limits, no bounds and no end. What God is, He is without boundaries. All that God is, He is without bounds or limits.

[b]The Immensity of God[/b]

The Scripture also teaches the immensity of God. It says in Isaiah, “Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?” (40:12).

Imagine going out millions of light years into space and finding a body so vast that you could throw all our solar system into it. Like throwing a shovelful of coal into a furnace, it would simply swallow up our solar system and go on. After you’ve thought of all that, remember that God contains all that. Remember that God is outside of all things and inside of all things and around all things. Remember that our God made it. That is the immensity of God.

The Holy Ghost is bigger than all the universe, this little hazelnut that Julian saw. “Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket” (40:15). You know, it’s awfully hard to get a Christian scared. It’s hard to get him panicked if he really believes in God. If he’s just a church member, you can get him panicked. But if he really believes in God it’s very difficult to do it.

Old Dr. Neighbor used to say that the word vanity in the Hebrew meant “a soap bubble”—something that floats along on an infinitesimally thin skin. You touch it and it’s gone; no one can find it again. That’s what it means: all the nations of the world are to Him as a soap bubble.
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in. To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth. (40:22, 25-26)

Now this passage is probably the most daring flight of imagination ever made by the human mind. We have here in Isaiah that which is vaster and more awesome than anything that ever came out of the mind of Shakespeare. It is the thought of the great God, the Shepherd of the universe, moving through His universe, with its billions and trillions of light years, with its worlds so big that our whole solar system would look like a grain of sand by comparison. And God stands out yonder and calls all of these millions of worlds as His sheep; He calls them all by name and leads them out across the vast sky.

I’d say this is the highest thought I know of, in the Bible or out. And God does this “by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth” (40:26). Just as a shepherd keeps all of his sheep and not one is lost, so God keeps all of His universe. Men point their tiny little glasses at the stars and talk learnedly, but they’ve just been counting God’s sheep, nothing more. God is running His universe.

And then in the Psalms we read,

Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honor and majesty. Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain: who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind. (104:1-3)

"The Attributes of God"
[i]A Journey Into the Father's Heart[/i]
A.W. Tozer


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/6/24 9:53Profile





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