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Discussion Forum : General Topics : WHAT ABOUT THE HOLMAN CHRISTIAN STANDARD BIBLE?

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 Re:

Dann... I love ya, my brother.

It's interesting to me that when debates like this happen, people start throwing around the old "Well.... when I was in BIBLE SCHOOL..." line. Thats great if you went to Bible school, and I'm not knocking anyone who has. But I believe the professors at some of these Bible schools have done more harm to the cause of Christ than anything else.

Going to Bible school doesnt impress me, and it doesnt matter if someone is on my side of an argument or not.

Fact is.... the information is out there for anyone with enough gumption to go find it. I dont need some high-brow professor to tell me what to think. I can examine the evidence for myself.

By the way... I have a bachelors degree in engineering... I'm NOT against education.

Anyway... Faith does play into this when it comes to the doctrine of preservation. I believe the TR is the preserved Word of God. I believe the other stream is Satan's counterfeit. Period. I do not read from Bibles from that stream... altho I used to be a staunch supporter of the NIV and the NASB.

I do have a Tyndale NT that I love, and I have a Greens Modern KJV that I sometimes refer to in personal study.

I will not sit under someone who is preaching/teaching from a version of the Alexandrian stream.

These are convictions that the Holy Spirit has brought me to.

Everyone is free to disagree with me. I have no problem with that. I dont really care. I will still call you brother... and our salvation is not based on what version we read.

But thats not to say this issue isnt important.. it is extremely important... and is problem one of the most important issues facing the church today.

Krispy

 2005/6/23 6:45
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Your conviction is not my conviction

First off welcome back, you certainly left a mark in the brief time that you with us last time, so having you not around was... well I'll leave you hanging. :-P

Quote:

Everyone is free to disagree with me.

I do not get that feeling.
Quote:

I have no problem with that. I dont really care...
But thats not to say this issue isnt important.. it is extremely important... and is problem one of the most important issues facing the church today.

Says who? It seems like it is only Krisspy's conviction. The thing is you are trying to make your conviction an important issue, and quite honestly, for me, it is not. I will not post thirty odd rebutals and refutals trying to convince you of that fact either, even with all the evidence in the world. This, of course is my conviction. ;-)

Hoping that the goal of the thread is being achieved,


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/6/23 7:24Profile









 Re:

Hey Zeke...

It is important. Contending for the Word of God is important.

Look at it this way... either the TR is correct, and the other is corrupt, or the other is correct and the TR is corrupt... but they cant both be correct, therefore they both must be corrupt.

If they are both corrupt, then how do we know what God's Word is? If we dont have the true Word of God... then how do we know God?

Therefore, one must be correct, or God did not keep His promise to preserve His Word unto every generation. If God doesnt keep His promises, how can we be assured of salvation?

It's worth contending for. It is important to know what is God's Word, and what isnt.

And this isnt some crusade that I and I alone am on... there are many who realize the imporatance of this issue in these last days when confusion and deception runs rampant.

Krispy

 2005/6/23 8:18
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1792
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

I am so agast at how many translations come out I cannot keep up with them all !!!
i think I stick with what is trustworthy and right!!! and not worry about the rest


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2005/6/23 12:09Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I am so agast at how many translations come out I cannot keep up with them all !!!i think I stick with what is trustworthy and right!!! and not worry about the rest



You're right... it is alarming. Each of the over 100 modern English versions available today claims that they make the Bible easier to read and understand. How many versions do we need that are easier to read and understand? It doesnt even make sense. Is the English language changing so rapidly that we need a new version every 6 months?

I'm not against a Bible that is easier to read... but when it comes at the expense of doctrine, or watering down the gospel... what's the point?

The issue isnt the English language. If you use the same corrupt greek manuscripts used to translate the NIV to make a Spanish version... you will have a corrupted Spanish bible.

As far as not worrying about it... it doesnt worry me as far as my walk with Christ is concerned. What worries me is how the church has become so diluted by the influence of these Bibles. The deception is wide and deep. My concern is for others who dont take the time to look into this issue... and just accept what their pastor or the publishing company says.

Why are there so many modern versions? MONEY. Notice the big publicity campaigns the publishing companies do when a new version comes out. HCSB was the latest mass marketing escapade. It's all about MONEY. Interesting to note that there is no copyright on the KJV. You can quote from it all day long in writing or recording. Just ask ol' Rick Warren what he had to pay the publishing companies when he quoted from over 30 different versions in his Purpose books and materials.

Money Money Money....

Krispy

 2005/6/23 13:20
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Therefore, one must be correct, or God did not keep His promise to preserve His Word unto every generation. If God doesnt keep His promises, how can we be assured of salvation?



Both can have errors, and God still have his word preserved. Let us not be ignorant. There was one time when the entirety of Scripture was lost, yet God still had it preserved. We read about this in the Bible of all places:

You can read this account in 2 Kings 22. At one point in history the Scriptures were lost. When Josiah comissioned the temple to be repaired, this chapter records them finding the long-lost Law of God. When it was found, the priest of the Lord, Hilkiah brought it to king Josiah, who instituted a national religious reform. One of the greatest revival's of history occured with the losing and rediscovery of God's word!!!

SO, if we are going to talk about the preservation of God's word, let's be Biblical about it. God's word could be hidden in a cave for 1500 years or even the rest of this age and his word still be preserved.

You've cited things such as the reformation being based on things such as your prefered ancient text. All fine and good, but had the generally prefered texts scholars believe to be the best today would have suited folks like Luther and Calvin just as well, as that text likewise holds all the same doctrines.

Or consider this: the Church in China. Many Christians in China do not have a copy of the Bible, or if they do, they have only a small portion of it. Yet China is seeing a revival that drawfs anything ever seen in history since the days of the 12 apostles. Some of them simply have hand copied pages of the Bible at best.

Consider a story the famous Chinese missionary Watchman Nee told once. He mentioned a Chinese Christian who only had one page of the Bible, which constituted of only Mark 16, with the "long ending." He said this Christian was only able to obtain this page, and quite by accident. Yet he read it, believed it, and then went about casting out devils, speaking in new tongues, and performing miracles in the name of Christ... based of just this one page of Scripture.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/6/23 13:40Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

I will not sit under someone who is preaching/teaching from a version of the Alexandrian stream.

These are convictions that the Holy Spirit has brought me to.



I bet most the time you could not even recognize if somebody actually was.

It is so sad that you'd blame the Holy Spirit for such a delusion.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/6/23 13:42Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

It's interesting to me that when debates like this happen, people start throwing around the old "Well.... when I was in BIBLE SCHOOL..." line. Thats great if you went to Bible school, and I'm not knocking anyone who has. But I believe the professors at some of these Bible schools have done more harm to the cause of Christ than anything else.

Going to Bible school doesnt impress me, and it doesnt matter if someone is on my side of an argument or not.

Fact is.... the information is out there for anyone with enough gumption to go find it. I dont need some high-brow professor to tell me what to think. I can examine the evidence for myself.



I only quoted the fact that I learned something in Bible school to show that this is not an unlearned opinion. Much as you quoted stuff from all sorts of "great textual scholars" to show yours is not an based on men who have entirely unlearned opinions.

You should not attempt to shrug it off with "I believe the professors at some of these Bible schools have done more harm to the cause of Christ than anything else," especially when your stance is based on "scholars and theologians" who work at these same institutes.

My school I went to was a satellite school, so I only had a small handful of professors who I had class after class with, men with whom I have labored in the gospel and gotten to known intimately over the last 2 years. We have prayed together and cried together and ate together, and have had great fellowship. These men have been men who greatly feared God, and strove to walk in integrity in all their profession. They have done more for the cause of Christ to promote the gospel than you ever will. You should not attempt to blow something of with such a vague generality in order to defend your position, especially with an attack on their character, men you have never met. These were far from "high-brow" professors. Why is it that you quote from Bible scholars one minute then trash them the next?

Informed opinions is what makes one scholarly.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/6/23 13:52Profile
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re:

Quote:
These men have been men who greatly feared God, and strove to walk in integrity in all their profession. They have done more for the cause of Christ to promote the gospel than you ever will.



I know this wasn't directed at me, but, KingJimmy, this is WWAAAYY over the line!! Not only is this below the belt, but it is something you could never know. Not to mention it is not yours to judge such a thing as this.

Who are you to say who will end up doing more or less in the Kingdom of God???

If you do not immediately repent of this, it will greatly lessen my respect for you, sir. Not that it matters what I think. But just want to let you know how ugly this looks.

RT

 2005/6/23 17:58Profile









 as the Dutch said, "there ya go again"

Quote:
I believe the other stream is Satan's counterfeit.



when I see 'opinions' like that just bandied about, not only does it grieve me, but I do believe that it grieves the Holy Spirit most intensely.

we become the laughing stock of devils by this continued inane argument, and the inevitable divisive ungodly arguments that emit from the bowels of our flesh.

inane.

without profit,

and surely not edifying.

please stop, for Jesus' sake,

your NOT contending for the Word, you're not even contending for the Faith, you're only contending for your opinion.

 2005/6/23 18:10





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