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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Effects of the Headcovering on Divorce by Myron Horst

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roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
Legalism draws a caricature of godly things and drives immature people to counter it with license.


Well put!!


_________________
Diane

 2017/10/14 17:57Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1165
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Savannah said:

...except for the title.

It ought to be, "The Effects of Feminism on Divorce."

And each time headcovering is alluded to as the culprit, it should be replaced by the word feminism.

There are a number of countries whose divorce rate is low that have no clue about the headcovering.

Again, the culprit is the sin of feminism. All these other things are merely the symptoms of this disorder.

I would go farther. Missing headcoverings on women in our culture results in a high divorce rate might possibly be one of the most creative oversimplifications one could make on the subject of divorce.

Savannah was right on the money, but this oversimplification in the O.P misses the real culprit which is feminism and godless rebellion towards male authority built into the female Psyche from the outset of their childhood.
Add to this the feminization of the male and the cultural approval of male-browbeating from females turns all upside down in a short time. Women are God designed to link with Males for family and childbirth, but all it is short-circuited when the feminist whores her way through life, pretending to put men in their place while the philandering man puts her in his bed to exploit her feminism by getting what he wants sexually and she gets to say triumphantly " I did it my way".
All of this nonsense is carried straight into the Church and delivered straight to the pastors and elders where the more rash forms of feminism are put to silence and the silent subtle forms are left to stand uncontested.
There is a lot to be said on this subject but headcoverings is probably the silliest way to approach repentance toward male leadership I've seen.
Is there no one that can muster the courage to deal with feminism and cowardly male leadership in the home?
Let me give you a Marvin-litmus test...take this recipe to your church and dip it in the Pastors "idea box" Suggest that he deal with women in rebellion to their husbands, male authority and failing to submit to authority. Then offer a series of meetings designed to address the area of feminism and its failure to keep the family safe from the harmful effects of disharmony and strife and replace it with a godly order.
Put this up right next to the same short series for men on avoiding and overcoming pornography.
If the females cannot overcome feminism, there is no sense in asking the males to turn from pornography for if the female can keep her sin, the male can keep his.
Does this sound godly? No not in a million years, but and I say a big but...this is exactly the sort of compromise and deal-making that is going on behind closed doors in the congregation. Have a look at the prevalence of dealing with males on pornography and look at the mere pittance of sermons or articles dealing with feminism, female subjection to males, godly order, patterning yourself after Sarah and other various texts in Titus 2.
I agree to in-spirit with the need for female subjection and submission to authority for a godly and orderly home, I do not agree that holiness buns will have the slightest effect in bringing an end to feminism. Holiness buns are something worn long after the issue of feminism has been put to death in the woman's heart just like pornography is long dead once submission to the Lord our bodies and repentance from coveting for male pleasure has occurred.
But again allow me to be the thorn in every churches shoe. The normative pastor will not address it for two reasons. 1. The pocketbook will be hit because when the woman writes the offering/tithe check she will vote against the leadership with her money. The Church budget will feel it and that all the way to the salary of the leaders. 2. An exodus of women pushing their husbands to get out from those mean, authoritarian, legalist, hostile, anti-women, anti-equality misogynists in charge over there. "how can you tolerate that talk about me like that"? she will say.
If the pastor succumbs to this, you can know for certain that no holiness bun will ever give the pastor the courage to confront this devil that roams freely in most big-church ministries and surely in every man-who-is-in-charge-by-permission-of-their-wife leading those churches.
So, if you want change I say deal with the real devil and leave the idea of resolving serious problems to those who will deal seriously with those problems.


_________________
Marvin

 2017/10/14 22:26Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: Declaration of Feminism


Here's the connection in their own words;


"The right to birth control, abortion and divorce should be recognized. (Humanist Manifesto II)


“The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore, it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men.” ( Declaration of Feminism, ca. 1971)

Much more evidence could be brought forward, but maybe it would be best left at this and another thread begun on the F word.

And...thanks Marvin that you saw fit to "go farther".

 2017/10/15 20:44Profile









 Re:

Dear saints:

Feminism and not wearing the head covering might both be two of many outward symptoms of the man not being the head of the home, the spiritual examples God called/created him to be in Christ and not leading and providing an example to women to follow as he follows Christ.

The scriptures declare to the man:

"25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.a 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband" (Eph. 5).

Also:

"1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

2 Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband,b and the head of Christ is God" (1 Cor. 11).

"7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered" (1 Peter 3).

Is not the man the overseer of the home/family, the workplace and the local body of Christ?

"1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil" (1 Tim. 3).

Does not the man of God need to have a pure heart to provide examples for the women and if he fails then what is the result?

"Tradition and Commandment

1 Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” 3 And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4“For God said, ‘HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,’ and, ‘HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.’ 5“But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God,” 6 he is not to honor his father or his mother.’ And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7“You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:

8‘THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.

9‘BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.’”

10 After Jesus called the crowd to Him, He said to them, “Hear and understand. 11 “It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.”

12 Then the disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?” 13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted. 14“Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”“Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted. 14 “Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”

The Heart of Man

15 Peter said to Him, “Explain the parable to us.” 16 Jesus said, “Are you still lacking in understanding also? 17 “Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated? 18 “But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. 19 “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. 20 “These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man” (Matt. 15).

Could God’s Righteous Judgment be allowing feminism because of the failure of men to walk with the Father and follow Christ and His commandments?

"1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed" (Rom. 2).

Yes Father, I have failed to be an example to women in following Christ, in being holy in my whole manner of life and I have caused them to stumble. God have mercy on me a sinner, I repent, forgive me, break me, transform me into the image of your Son and let your will be done in me as it is done in heaven.

KM

 2017/10/15 23:36
Martyr
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Joined: 2012/6/10
Posts: 225
United States

 Re: The Effects of the Headcovering on Divorce by Myron Horst

Looking at the scriptures where Jesus speaks of divorce I have to ask: is divorce a sin or is having sexual relations with someone after a divorce (which is adultery because you have already joined yourself to a woman/man and a court ordered paper does not annull that spiritual principal) actually the sin?

Im ready for the hate but go please look at the scriptures and see what they say, if i'm wrong please show me where


_________________
Tyler

 2017/10/16 1:42Profile









 Re:

Tyler writes...

•••
Im ready for the hate but go
•••

Is it possible the hate being described here is a hatred of women. One wonders when I look at the spirit of this thread.

Blaine

 2017/10/16 6:31
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
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Online!
 Re:

Quote:
Looking at the scriptures where Jesus speaks of divorce I have to ask: is divorce a sin or is having sexual relations with someone after a divorce (which is adultery because you have already joined yourself to a woman/man and a court ordered paper does not annull that spiritual principal) actually the sin?




Brother,

This is actually correct and is what the Scriptures speak of and the Early Church believed. Only during the reformation there were a "few" exceptions and after that in the modern times there has been a losing of this doctrine and full allowance under the premise of "grace."

I personally believe God knows every situation but the general rule is that it is sin an disobeying God's will. Once people come to terms with this and repent they must ask the Lord what to do if "restitution" a leaving of the party is required. God will make this clear.

Just imagine 100 years ago remarried was almost unheard of in the Church and divorce much less seldomn then today. And homosexuals hid and if they flaunted in public or caught in the act they were arrested. How times have changed.


Quote:
Is it possible the hate being described here is a hatred of women. One wonders when I look at the spirit of this thread.




Blaine, that seems like an outlandish comment, how do you justify that?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/10/16 7:05Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: feminism has crept in unawares




"Blaine, that seems like an outlandish comment, how do you justify that?"

You've just been introduced to the spirit of feminism!

Blaine,as Eve in the garden was,is under the spell. That is the only explanation of such an outlandish comment. Now, what is even worse, he will add more sin as he in his stupor attempts to justify himself and defend his comment.

When it is as clear as day to all other readers of this thread that there's absolutely no "hatred of women...in the spirit of this thread."

I knew this spirit would not be able to be silent, because this F spirit roams about seeking to devour.

Many have succumbed to this seductive spirit already.

As Ahab's wife Jezebel, many have joined themselves to the worship of the goddess Ashtoreth.

 2017/10/16 7:31Profile
Martyr
Member



Joined: 2012/6/10
Posts: 225
United States

 Re:

Blaine thats not what I meant by hate. What I mentioned about the scriptures and divorce isnt commonly taught and thus isnt always well accepted. Thats all brother.

Greg, I had no idea that was the standard practice until the "reformation". Thanks for sharing that!


_________________
Tyler

 2017/10/16 9:30Profile









 Re:

•••
Blaine, that seems like an outlandish comment, how do you justify that?
•••

Is my comment any more outlandish then to suggest a woman wearing the head covering is less likely to divorce her husband. Muslims can make the same claim about their wives. Their wives are covered head to foot. Yet for a Muslim woman to divorce her husband she would be put to death. But yet a man is free in Islam to divorce any one of his four wives.

What is coming forth in this thread is the spirit of religion and all of its ugly forms. There is no gospel centrtedness or cross of Christ being displayed here.

The Lord Jesus Christ has a higher view of women than some of our evangelical brethren. But then Jesus never subscribed to a religious system.

Blaine

 2017/10/16 10:16





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