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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Are we servants of the Holy Spirit or prisoners of the organization?

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appolus
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Joined: 2004/5/16
Posts: 1240


 Are we servants of the Holy Spirit or prisoners of the organization?


There is a key aspect of life in Christ, it is the power of the Holy Spirit. Most would acknowledge this but many will not truly know what indeed they are acknowledging. What does it mean to be led of the Spirit as opposed to being prisoners of the organization? Let me give you a Biblical example of what it means to me.

Eze 47:9 And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes......... Eze 47:11 But the miry places thereof and the marshes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

What we see here in the prophet's vision is the power of the Holy Spirit going forth, flowing out, always moving, always fresh always healing. In comparison we see what happens in the miry places, in the marshes where the water does not flow. It becomes stagnant and in those places there is no healing and it slowly turns to salt and all life eventually dies. This is such a stark difference. On the one hand we have on either side of the flowing river, evergreen trees, like the trees from Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. On the other hand we have stagnant pools that go nowhere and are slowly dying or dead. There is no life in the miry places, there is no life in the marshes. This, to me, represents the Christian organizations of the world, the denominations.

In all things and at all times the Holy Spirit must be preeminent. If He is not then your church or your organization is dying. Now a dying man can look very healthy is that not right? It all depends upon where he is in the dying process. Initially there may be no outward signs at all ,yet over time he begins to succumb to death. In regard to organizations this process may take days, months , years or even century's. An unknown author write the following which I subscribe to................

"There are many classifications into which men and women may be divided-upper, middle or lower class; rich, well to do and poor; religious, sceptical and atheist;... and so forth and so on. But as I think, the only categorization which really matters is that which divides men as between Servants of the Spirit and Prisoners of the Organization. That classification which cuts right across all other classifications, is indeed a fundamental one. The idea, the inspiration, originates in the internal world, the world of the Spirit... the idea having embodied itself in the organization, the organization then proceeds gradually to slay the idea which gave it birth.

In the field of religion a prophet, an inspired man will see a vision of truth. He expresses that vision as best he may in words. Upon what his disciples understand of the prophets message an organization, a church is built. The half understood message in crystalized into a creed. Before long the principal concern of the church will be to sustain itself as an organization."

You see, the moment the vision is shared and the people stop along the way and construct a structure or an organization in honor of the vision rather than simply moving forward on the current of the vision to the next vision, death begins its process in the marshes and the miry static places that many of us now call houses of worship. The preeminency of the Holy Spirit, of Jesus in our midst, is quite simply the current that keeps us moving and brings life to everything that it touches. The vision of a man or organization that usurps the preeminent Christ whether willingly or unwittingly is already in the process of dying.

As the life of the Spirit wanes in the gathering then it must be gradually replaced by the passion of a man or a group. Rather than entering into His presence people begin to be entertained. They become spectators and not participators and begin to slowly. All over the land the gathering places are in the process of death, various stages perhaps, but death none the less. Outside of being a servant to the Holy Spirit and the preeminency of Jesus there is only death, no matter how skillfully it is covered up and masked, it is death by any other name. We shall be servants of the Holy Spirit or we shall be prisoners of the organization but we cannot be both............bro Frank


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Frank

 2017/10/11 21:12Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1750
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Are we servants of the Holy Spirit or prisoners of the organization?

Frank: I was just reading Frank Bartleman's accounts of Azusa Street last night. His message was exactly what you just said. It is Christ who is the head of the church, and He directs His body through the Holy Spirit.


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Travis

 2017/10/12 8:15Profile









 Re: Are we servants of the Holy Spirit or prisoners of the organization?

Yes Lord Jesus.

Thanks for the word Frank.

I also think of William Booth, the Wesley’s, Menno Simmons, Calvin, Lutheran, etc. and what we read and know of their life in the Holy Spirit. Then, we see the organizations that followed and were built upon man’s foundation and not upon Jesus Christ’s foundation. Even today when we attend Christian meetings or conferences we sometimes speak about the speaker and not about what the Holy Spirit and the Head of the body of Christ is speaking.

According to the scriptures let each one take care how he builds upon a foundation:

“4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?

5 What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8 He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9 For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.

10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 21 So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s” (1 Cor. 3).

 2017/10/12 9:30
appolus
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Joined: 2004/5/16
Posts: 1240


 Re:

Ken writes......

"I also think of William Booth, the Wesley’s, Menno Simmons, Calvin, Lutheran, etc. and what we read and know of their life in the Holy Spirit. Then, we see the organizations that followed and were built upon man’s foundation and not upon Jesus Christ’s foundation. Even today when we attend Christian meetings or conferences we sometimes speak about the speaker and not about what the Holy Spirit and the Head of the body of Christ is speaking."

Amen, these are good examples brother.........bro Frank


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Frank

 2017/10/12 12:21Profile
appolus
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Joined: 2004/5/16
Posts: 1240


 Re:

Travis writes.........

"I was just reading Frank Bartleman's accounts of Azusa Street last night. His message was exactly what you just said. It is Christ who is the head of the church, and He directs His body through the Holy Spirit."

Amen, Christ indeed is the head of His Church and must be preeminent............bro Frank


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Frank

 2017/10/12 12:22Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1525
Scotland, UK

 Re: Are we servants of the Holy Spirit or prisoners of the organization?

Sadly some of the first words I heard God speak to me was -

"The church is dead"

Your words reminded of this quote: All over the land the gathering places are in the process of death, various stages perhaps, but death none the less.

Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? Rom 6:16

The options are: obedience, which leads to righteousness; or slaves to sin or as you said (prisoners of the organization)

Let us offer ourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness


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Colin Murray

 2017/10/12 17:43Profile
appolus
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Joined: 2004/5/16
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 Re:

Colin writes.......

"Let us offer ourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness."

Amen brother......bro Frank


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Frank

 2017/10/12 19:45Profile
sermonindex
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Online!
 Re:

Quote:
You see, the moment the vision is shared and the people stop along the way and construct a structure or an organization in honor of the vision rather than simply moving forward on the current of the vision to the next vision, death begins its process in the marshes and the miry static places that many of us now call houses of worship. The preeminency of the Holy Spirit, of Jesus in our midst, is quite simply the current that keeps us moving and brings life to everything that it touches. The vision of a man or organization that usurps the preeminent Christ whether willingly or unwittingly is already in the process of dying.



Brother,

Of course I agree that if people are just seeking to keep an organization or church traditions going without any personal connection with God, it is death to those people as they are not in contact with the Head. But the organization of the Church itself is ordained of God who wrote by the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures. So the organization itself is not wrong it is the problem of not being in fellowship with the organizer!

God's intention is for us to follow His commands, the way of Christ. His words are not optional or for our interpretation but obedience. Along with the writings of the apostles by the Holy Spirit we find what God intends for us as the Church (the Kingdom of God).

All groups such as Waldensians followed the Scriptures with Biblical elders, Lords Supper, Head Coverings, Following the Teachings of Christ literally, etc.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/10/12 20:11Profile
appolus
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Joined: 2004/5/16
Posts: 1240


 Re:

Greg writes......

"Of course I agree that if people are just seeking to keep an organization or church traditions going without any personal connection with God, it is death to those people as they are not in contact with the Head."

It is not about " contact with the head." If the Lord is preeminent in anyone;s life they will experience His presence. It is about the preeminence of Jesus through the Holy Spirit. If men are in charge, and God knows, then whatever the gathering is, whatever the name of the gathering or the denomination is, death is overtaking it. It is not about an organization itself being right or wrong, it is about whether one follows the Holy Spirit, is a servant of the Holy Spirit. If he or she is not, then that one is a prisoner to "the organization," whatever organization that is......bro Frank


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Frank

 2017/10/12 20:30Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 98
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Dangerous words bro Frank: Id give you about 15 seconds after you read that in a ministerial group before they dismissed you from the pulpit and walked you out.

Men fight hard for organizations,
Men love the admiration of other men
Men enjoy the success of numbers, finances, buildings, converts, teens and children in their organization.
Men do all these things for Jesus, by Jesus and unto Jesus glory...when they ask
How are we dying when God is building according to the vision he gave us...and your vision is no more than a dismissal of our vision. Tell us how you expect us to believe you?


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Marvin

 2017/10/12 23:04Profile





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